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>People not working being paid for existing at a time when the real economy went into cardiac arrest by every measure of actual productivity. Are people still

>People not working being paid for existing at a time when the real economy went into cardiac arrest by every measure of actual productivity. Are people still on this canard? As a reminder, if people were paid by their measure of actual productivity, minimum wage would be $24/hr (see: https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/01/24/what-the-minimum-wage-would-be-if-it-kept-pace-with-productivity/ https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/01/24/what-the-minimum-wag...) Another reminder, these are the relief payments made to Americans over one year: March 27, 2020: The payments for the first checks were $1,200 December 2020: The payments for the second checks were $600. March 2021: The payments for the third checks was $1,400. Total payments over a year: $3,200 A total of $850 billion was disbursed. The total payments work out to $266.66/month. I don't understand how disconnected people have to be to be angry over $266.66/month. Compare that disbursement with PPP loans. I don't see the same gnashing of teeth over the forgiven loans (remember a lot of them were not used for their intended purpose): https://www.sba.gov/funding-programs/loans/covid-19-relief-options/paycheck-protection-program/ppp-data https://www.sba.gov/funding-programs/loans/covid-19-relief-o... Data as of January 23, 2022 Total PPP volume (2020-2021) $790 billion Applications for forgiveness $688 billion And "paying people to exist" amount is completely dwarfed by corporate bailouts and tax breaks: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/business/coronavirus-bailout-spending/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/business/corona... More than half of the $4 trillion approved by Congress this spring was targeted to businesses ... Much of the money was issued to companies regardless of whether they were impacted by the pandemic or used it to pay employees. The bill included $651 billion in business tax breaks that often went to companies unaffected by the pandemic and others that laid off thousands of workers. The Cheesecake Factory, for example, furloughed 41,000 people, and said it will claim a tax break worth $50 million. ... Billions more went to the Federal Reserve to help stabilize markets, and those efforts enabled many companies — including Wells Fargo, AT&T and Carnival, the cruise company — to borrow at lower rates while also laying off thousands of workers. ... More than 210 hotel owners received PPP funds, for example, and have yet to rehire most of their staffs, according to Unite Here, the union whose members staff the properties. Among them: Omni Hotels & Resorts, a chain controlled by Texas billionaire Robert Rowling. A group of Omni properties received between $30 million and $71 million from the PPP while also furloughing workers and cutting off their health insurance coverage. All data in: https://www.covidmoneytracker.org/ https://www.covidmoneytracker.org/ So please, lets stop it with this right wing nonsense that people were paid to not work while ignoring the rest.

eru 5y ago
> As a reminder, if people were paid by their measure of actual productivity, minimum wage would be $24/hr Huh? What does one have to do with the other? Minimum wage just means that jobs that pay less than a certain amount are forbidden. It has nothing to do with productivity per se. In Singapore our minimum wage is 0. Yet people are still paid. And paid rather well actually. When productivity changes over time, we don't adjust that figure. But wages do adjust, thanks to market forces. The only relationship minimum wage laws have with productivity is that if you raise minimum wage much faster than productivity, your economy is gonna have a really bad time. The reverse is not a problem.
- callmeal 5y ago
  >The only relationship minimum wage laws have with productivity is that if you raise minimum wage much faster than productivity, your economy is gonna have a really bad time. The reverse is not a problem. Except for the folks, who you know, are responsible for that productivity!
  - eru 5y ago
    Competition is what's supposed to drive up wages until they equal marginal productivity. If you don't have enough labour market competition for that, you should look into easing barriers to entry. So you can: invite foreign companies to set up shop, encourage existing companies to branch out (eg allow WalMart to offer bank services like they wanted to; allow banks to sell coffee, like they wanted to), encourage start-ups. Perhaps try to move taxation away from labour and capital, and towards land.
ac29 5y ago
> I don't understand how disconnected people have to be to be angry over $266.66/month. I have a feeling that some of the angry people are people who made too much money to qualify for the stimulus. I certainly didnt hear of anyone returning their payments.

eru 5y ago

> As a reminder, if people were paid by their measure of actual productivity, minimum wage would be $24/hr Huh? What does one have to do with the other? Minimum wage just means that jobs that pay less than a certain amount are forbidden. It has nothing to do with productivity per se. In Singapore our minimum wage is 0. Yet people are still paid. And paid rather well actually. When productivity changes over time, we don't adjust that figure. But wages do adjust, thanks to market forces. The only relationship minimum wage laws have with productivity is that if you raise minimum wage much faster than productivity, your economy is gonna have a really bad time. The reverse is not a problem.

callmeal 5y ago
>The only relationship minimum wage laws have with productivity is that if you raise minimum wage much faster than productivity, your economy is gonna have a really bad time. The reverse is not a problem. Except for the folks, who you know, are responsible for that productivity!
- eru 5y ago
  Competition is what's supposed to drive up wages until they equal marginal productivity. If you don't have enough labour market competition for that, you should look into easing barriers to entry. So you can: invite foreign companies to set up shop, encourage existing companies to branch out (eg allow WalMart to offer bank services like they wanted to; allow banks to sell coffee, like they wanted to), encourage start-ups. Perhaps try to move taxation away from labour and capital, and towards land.

ac29 5y ago

> I don't understand how disconnected people have to be to be angry over $266.66/month. I have a feeling that some of the angry people are people who made too much money to qualify for the stimulus. I certainly didnt hear of anyone returning their payments.