4 ms·

>Right to repair does prevent warranties, nor does it require a change in how you make a product. TFA says it: "when the battery failed, it took another seven

by iqanq 5y ago

>Right to repair does prevent warranties, nor does it require a change in how you make a product. TFA says it: "when the battery failed, it took another seven hours to replace that. Both the screen and battery had been glued into the computer, requiring surgery-like precision to replace them without breaking something else." - in other words, instead of gluing components, screw them. That makes hardware thicker. >This is about preventing companies from preventing other companies from selling parts on the open market. This is not a problem in practical terms. If you go on aliexpress you will see that you can find any single component inside of an iphone. But they are knockoffs and they suck. They want to force Apple to sell parts even if they don't want to, and I am against that. (This is just an example: I think Apple is selling parts now.)

labawi 5y ago
> They want to force Apple to sell parts even if they don't want to, and I am against that. What's wrong with manufacturers being forced to sell parts? IMO, once once a manufacturer is selling more than small batches, then yes, they should be forced to provide parts and manuals for things you get money for. That was once considered normal, is still legally required in many industries (though enforcement tends to be scarce), and should be required and followed in pretty much any industry. What is the downside except manufacturer's convenience (and profits from generating garbage)? IMO it's a net-win for society.
- iqanq 5y ago
  The downside is precisely that they are forced to do something they do not want to do. I am against that in general terms. Consumers are not forced to buy those phones either.
  - indymike 5y ago
    > Consumers are not forced to buy those phones either. There are no alternatives on the market, so this is not an option.
    - serverholic 5y ago
      And regulation makes it harder for alternatives to exist. Why is this so hard for people to understand? If you want competition you need to reduced the cost of entry.
      - indymike 5y ago
        I agree with this 100%. This is a problem born of over-regulation, where we've slowly allowed regulation (especially copyright) to chip away at Mangnus-Moss (which was passed in the 1970s to make sure you could fix your own dishwasher or car), which made it clear that people were allowed to work on the equipment they owned.
  - labawi 5y ago
    Other laws that force manufacturers to do things they don't want: Food safety laws, liability laws, minimum warranty terms, truthful advertising, anti-trust, laws against dumping toxic sludge in rivers or sending it to poor countries, putting lead in your products, minimum wage, maximum working hours etc. Would you abolish those laws as well? Note that most manufacturer wouldn't do those things voluntarily, or rather, unless forced, they couldn't even if they wanted to, because they wouldn't be competitive. Yes, some consumers are knowledgeable, have the time to choose wisely and funds to pay more upfront, but it's not realistic to expect consumers to do extensive research on each item they buy. In such a market, a good manufacturer is relegated to be much more costly, because they don't have economies of scale, hurting both good manufacturers, all consumers and the environment.
indymike 5y ago
OK, so it's glued together - heat it up, release the glue. Yes, it does take different tools and techniques to deal with glued parts, surface mount solder and so on, but it is certainly not impossible to do. If my repair guy said hey, 50% chance I'll break it, but I'll try to fix that $1000 out of warranty paperweight for $350 that Apple will fix for $1200... I would simply like to be able to place that bet. Apple isn't taking any risk. > This is not a problem in practical terms. This is a problem when I cannot buy a standard (not custom) power amplifier chip because a manufacturer deal prevents the manufacturer of the power amp from selling to retail distributors. This is why I have to buy cheap knock-off parts most of the time. The original part would cost $7 and the cheap knock off is $3. The labor - $200. Why take the risk of having to fix it again because of the cheap part? Every argument against right to repair requires you suspend common sense and buy into some scenario where reality doesn't apply. It's absurd that people are forced to replace $1000 phones over $7 parts, and even more absurd that a farmer has the same problem with his $1 Million combine over similar component level repair issues. Apple sells some parts now, and the prices make new devices attractive.

by iqanq 5y ago

labawi 5y ago

> They want to force Apple to sell parts even if they don't want to, and I am against that. What's wrong with manufacturers being forced to sell parts? IMO, once once a manufacturer is selling more than small batches, then yes, they should be forced to provide parts and manuals for things you get money for. That was once considered normal, is still legally required in many industries (though enforcement tends to be scarce), and should be required and followed in pretty much any industry. What is the downside except manufacturer's convenience (and profits from generating garbage)? IMO it's a net-win for society.

iqanq 5y ago
The downside is precisely that they are forced to do something they do not want to do. I am against that in general terms. Consumers are not forced to buy those phones either.
- indymike 5y ago
  > Consumers are not forced to buy those phones either. There are no alternatives on the market, so this is not an option.
  - serverholic 5y ago
    And regulation makes it harder for alternatives to exist. Why is this so hard for people to understand? If you want competition you need to reduced the cost of entry.
    - indymike 5y ago
      I agree with this 100%. This is a problem born of over-regulation, where we've slowly allowed regulation (especially copyright) to chip away at Mangnus-Moss (which was passed in the 1970s to make sure you could fix your own dishwasher or car), which made it clear that people were allowed to work on the equipment they owned.
- labawi 5y ago
  Other laws that force manufacturers to do things they don't want: Food safety laws, liability laws, minimum warranty terms, truthful advertising, anti-trust, laws against dumping toxic sludge in rivers or sending it to poor countries, putting lead in your products, minimum wage, maximum working hours etc. Would you abolish those laws as well? Note that most manufacturer wouldn't do those things voluntarily, or rather, unless forced, they couldn't even if they wanted to, because they wouldn't be competitive. Yes, some consumers are knowledgeable, have the time to choose wisely and funds to pay more upfront, but it's not realistic to expect consumers to do extensive research on each item they buy. In such a market, a good manufacturer is relegated to be much more costly, because they don't have economies of scale, hurting both good manufacturers, all consumers and the environment.

indymike 5y ago

OK, so it's glued together - heat it up, release the glue. Yes, it does take different tools and techniques to deal with glued parts, surface mount solder and so on, but it is certainly not impossible to do. If my repair guy said hey, 50% chance I'll break it, but I'll try to fix that $1000 out of warranty paperweight for $350 that Apple will fix for $1200... I would simply like to be able to place that bet. Apple isn't taking any risk. > This is not a problem in practical terms. This is a problem when I cannot buy a standard (not custom) power amplifier chip because a manufacturer deal prevents the manufacturer of the power amp from selling to retail distributors. This is why I have to buy cheap knock-off parts most of the time. The original part would cost $7 and the cheap knock off is $3. The labor - $200. Why take the risk of having to fix it again because of the cheap part? Every argument against right to repair requires you suspend common sense and buy into some scenario where reality doesn't apply. It's absurd that people are forced to replace $1000 phones over $7 parts, and even more absurd that a farmer has the same problem with his $1 Million combine over similar component level repair issues. Apple sells some parts now, and the prices make new devices attractive.