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Another quote from the article: " However, “youth” in Edo Japan must be understood as a more fluid term, one that is not connected solely to biological age. "

Another quote from the article: " However, “youth” in Edo Japan must be understood as a more fluid term, one that is not connected solely to biological age. " And this is why I am so very critical towards Japan. After living there, working there and being together with Japanese women I have changed my very positive opinion towards Japan. This paedophilia thing is very big there. I can name so many instances where it just grossed me out - and I am not talking about a 29 year old dude who dates some 17 year old girl. I am speaking about real paedophilia: starting from the school uniforms in middle school over anime to laws. I was myself molested as a kid and discussed this with my Japanese ex girlfriend. Her point was: "well, this man just liked you, it is a wonderful thing". Work culture, social pressure, blindly following orders, treating women bad, racism, ultra conservative government, the way they treat their historical debt towards Korea and China and so many things more. It annoys me even more that so many fellow Western people are pro-Japan and adore it and love Japanese people so much. At the same time you see the same Western people who are against China, have hidden racism against the Chinese. Double-standard is very huge. My point is: Japan has some good aspects, but most of the glue that keeps this archaic society together is worse than in societies and countries. This is my personal experience and I am triggered every time when people fetishize Japan.

tsol 5y ago
Really how ubiquitous is this though? Pretty much everything you mention I've seen in western countries as well. I've heard people joke about this, but I don't know how true it is in reality. It's hard to judge based on anecdotes and trends, looking at America's treatment of child stars there's some very strange stuff going on in the western world as well
solarmist 5y ago
I am one of those who love Japanese pop culture, but you are 100% correct. It very nearly soured me on Japan serval times as you mention it has you. Many, not just questionable, but outright disturbing practices make it a very bipolar place to live. The most vivid thing I personally experienced was going clubbing in Osaka then after closing running into a pair of girls I was dancing with at some point and I asked why they weren’t interested and the reply was that I wasn’t (physically) aggressive enough and asked too many questions. They literally didn’t want me to let them say no, so they wouldn’t have to take “responsibility” of going with me. That night _really_ turned me off of submissiveness as being an attractive personality trait
- solarmist 5y ago
  And more generally it makes me still hate the Japanese love of 仕方ない “It can't be helped” or 我慢 “persevere/endure it” as an all-purpose cop-outs. Everything bad is either the first or if it's REALLY bad then they pull out the second. It's better to just put up with it a push through than make waves.
  - D0rk0 5y ago
    You know what would be really nice... instead of cultivating an opinion about something you just don't yet understand, to declare, wow, I really don't understand this... and why don't I try to understand the multitude of factors that are at play here... instead of cultivating an opinion that is mostly based on erroneous assumptions. YOUR socialization process, you think of it as "dating," doesn't match their socialization process. You conclude they are--insert adjectives--instead of using the opportunity to try to understand the differences, and possibilities, that are being presented to you. To conclude that Japanese women are submissive, because _you_ don't quite understand the intricacies of Japanese social norms, values, customs, language.... We travel to explore and _expand_ our understanding of the world and the human condition, not to confirm our prejudices. Try it.
    - solarmist 5y ago
      WTF? No, I didn't conclude all Japanese women are submissive. I met two who embodied the “ideal of the submissive woman,” which creeped me out completely and showed me how awful that is as an actual personality trait. That's literally what I said. But you're naive if you don't think there is a deeply ingrained culture of perpetuating learned helplessness because of Japan’s highly hierarchical society or Japanese men and women don't hold up submissiveness as a desirable trait in themselves or their partners. It's every bit as widespread as the perfect housewife image from the 1950s used to be in the US.
      - D0rk0 5y ago
        You said... <I>I met two who embodied the “ideal of the submissive woman,"</I> ... which plays into a stereotype about Asian women, and Japanese women in particular whether you were generalizing or NOT. You conveniently slap a label on 2 girls you met for a few hours and came to ridiculous conclusions because YOU don't understand Japanese culture. Instead of pausing for a second to think about this, you want to double down on a sloppy inaccurate generalization regarding two girls that conveniently fits into the stereotype about ALL Asian women and pat yourself on the shoulder for not getting it, at all, then polish it off by suggesting I'M the naive one. LMAO Have at it. Byyyyyeeeeeeeeeeee
D0rk0 5y ago
Spend some time on the commie app TicToc. Asian parents, usually upper-middle class mommies, set-up accounts for their prepubescent daughters to act like horny ghetto alley cats and bump and grind in skimpy clothes to the adoration of millions. This is not a Japan-only thing. The framework of laws press this behavior into different avenues, but it's widespread across Asia. If Japan "grossed you out," go live somewhere in Southeast Asia. You can still negotiate a good price for the kid of your choosing directly from the parents. Read up on Arthur C. Clarke. Btw... I don't have "hidden racism" against Chinese... I have open hatred of the Communist Chinese Party. You're comparing organized industrial scale cannibalism to different sexual mores held on a societal level .... cough .....
- solarmist 5y ago
  I don't think the person you're replying to would disagree with your sentiment, but that doesn't excuse dismissing their opinion and experience because it's worse elsewhere. They are pointing out that there's plenty in Japan to make you sick and disgusted with them as a society, but Japan does a great job with the media so they have a mostly undeserved glowing reputation internationally. You want to hate on China. More power to you, but that doesn't excuse Japan from wrong doing. As a society is has TONS of deep social issues that cause massive damage to it's own citizens and worldwide.
  - D0rk0 5y ago
    See. Game. Set. Match. You're playing semantics games for the sake of it, or because you insist you are "right." I tried gently to nudge you back to reconsidering that there was a possibility that maybe, just MAYBE... you weren't right... but here you are... proclaiming.... >"there's plenty in Japan to make you sick and disgusted with >them as a society" One lazy scroll ago I could swear you were proclaiming your innocence regarding sloppy generalizations... "I wasn't talking about alllllllll Japanese women... just these two I happened to meet," ... BUT.... lucky for us.... no, you weren't referring to JUST Japanese women, but--this next part is called paraphrasing-- this is when we reword what you said to crystalize the essence of your statement: there's plenty in Japan... to make you sick with them... as a society." You have fun with your misconceptions. Make sure you travel to continue to confirm your biases and misunderstandings about humans. Happy trails. Me... I've always thought Japan was FASCINATING and blew my mind... but... you know, I'm just naive. Not like you. Oh wise one.

tsol 5y ago

Really how ubiquitous is this though? Pretty much everything you mention I've seen in western countries as well. I've heard people joke about this, but I don't know how true it is in reality. It's hard to judge based on anecdotes and trends, looking at America's treatment of child stars there's some very strange stuff going on in the western world as well

solarmist 5y ago

I am one of those who love Japanese pop culture, but you are 100% correct. It very nearly soured me on Japan serval times as you mention it has you. Many, not just questionable, but outright disturbing practices make it a very bipolar place to live. The most vivid thing I personally experienced was going clubbing in Osaka then after closing running into a pair of girls I was dancing with at some point and I asked why they weren’t interested and the reply was that I wasn’t (physically) aggressive enough and asked too many questions. They literally didn’t want me to let them say no, so they wouldn’t have to take “responsibility” of going with me. That night _really_ turned me off of submissiveness as being an attractive personality trait

solarmist 5y ago
And more generally it makes me still hate the Japanese love of 仕方ない “It can't be helped” or 我慢 “persevere/endure it” as an all-purpose cop-outs. Everything bad is either the first or if it's REALLY bad then they pull out the second. It's better to just put up with it a push through than make waves.
- D0rk0 5y ago
  You know what would be really nice... instead of cultivating an opinion about something you just don't yet understand, to declare, wow, I really don't understand this... and why don't I try to understand the multitude of factors that are at play here... instead of cultivating an opinion that is mostly based on erroneous assumptions. YOUR socialization process, you think of it as "dating," doesn't match their socialization process. You conclude they are--insert adjectives--instead of using the opportunity to try to understand the differences, and possibilities, that are being presented to you. To conclude that Japanese women are submissive, because _you_ don't quite understand the intricacies of Japanese social norms, values, customs, language.... We travel to explore and _expand_ our understanding of the world and the human condition, not to confirm our prejudices. Try it.
  - solarmist 5y ago
    WTF? No, I didn't conclude all Japanese women are submissive. I met two who embodied the “ideal of the submissive woman,” which creeped me out completely and showed me how awful that is as an actual personality trait. That's literally what I said. But you're naive if you don't think there is a deeply ingrained culture of perpetuating learned helplessness because of Japan’s highly hierarchical society or Japanese men and women don't hold up submissiveness as a desirable trait in themselves or their partners. It's every bit as widespread as the perfect housewife image from the 1950s used to be in the US.
    - D0rk0 5y ago
      You said... <I>I met two who embodied the “ideal of the submissive woman,"</I> ... which plays into a stereotype about Asian women, and Japanese women in particular whether you were generalizing or NOT. You conveniently slap a label on 2 girls you met for a few hours and came to ridiculous conclusions because YOU don't understand Japanese culture. Instead of pausing for a second to think about this, you want to double down on a sloppy inaccurate generalization regarding two girls that conveniently fits into the stereotype about ALL Asian women and pat yourself on the shoulder for not getting it, at all, then polish it off by suggesting I'M the naive one. LMAO Have at it. Byyyyyeeeeeeeeeeee

D0rk0 5y ago

Spend some time on the commie app TicToc. Asian parents, usually upper-middle class mommies, set-up accounts for their prepubescent daughters to act like horny ghetto alley cats and bump and grind in skimpy clothes to the adoration of millions. This is not a Japan-only thing. The framework of laws press this behavior into different avenues, but it's widespread across Asia. If Japan "grossed you out," go live somewhere in Southeast Asia. You can still negotiate a good price for the kid of your choosing directly from the parents. Read up on Arthur C. Clarke. Btw... I don't have "hidden racism" against Chinese... I have open hatred of the Communist Chinese Party. You're comparing organized industrial scale cannibalism to different sexual mores held on a societal level .... cough .....

solarmist 5y ago
I don't think the person you're replying to would disagree with your sentiment, but that doesn't excuse dismissing their opinion and experience because it's worse elsewhere. They are pointing out that there's plenty in Japan to make you sick and disgusted with them as a society, but Japan does a great job with the media so they have a mostly undeserved glowing reputation internationally. You want to hate on China. More power to you, but that doesn't excuse Japan from wrong doing. As a society is has TONS of deep social issues that cause massive damage to it's own citizens and worldwide.
- D0rk0 5y ago
  See. Game. Set. Match. You're playing semantics games for the sake of it, or because you insist you are "right." I tried gently to nudge you back to reconsidering that there was a possibility that maybe, just MAYBE... you weren't right... but here you are... proclaiming.... >"there's plenty in Japan to make you sick and disgusted with >them as a society" One lazy scroll ago I could swear you were proclaiming your innocence regarding sloppy generalizations... "I wasn't talking about alllllllll Japanese women... just these two I happened to meet," ... BUT.... lucky for us.... no, you weren't referring to JUST Japanese women, but--this next part is called paraphrasing-- this is when we reword what you said to crystalize the essence of your statement: there's plenty in Japan... to make you sick with them... as a society." You have fun with your misconceptions. Make sure you travel to continue to confirm your biases and misunderstandings about humans. Happy trails. Me... I've always thought Japan was FASCINATING and blew my mind... but... you know, I'm just naive. Not like you. Oh wise one.