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The Battle of Helm’s Deep, Part I: Bargaining for Goods at Helm’s Gate
- kiba 5y agoI like reading these sort of analysis, especially since as a writer I aspire to verisimilitude, even if I am terrible at it. Too many writers either don't have the discipline or don't care about plot holes, which are often the size of moons. (I am looking at you, Star Trek)
- msh 5y agoI think that plot holes matter for some kind of (science) fiction, for other kinds its does not (satire/comedy being a prime example). The is a pretty big difference how Douglas Adams writes and how Charlie Stross write. Both are great but very different world building.
- darkerside 5y agoWhat makes you say plot holes do not matter? That seems like a problem in any narrative writing.
- chongli 5y agoPlot holes matter in direct proportion to the seriousness of the work. People care a lot more about plot holes in The Lord of the Rings than they do in The Colour of Magic.
- kiba 5y agoPlot holes are everywhere in stories, serious or not. People who care about plot holes and internal consistency are the exception, rather than the norm.
- mcphage 5y agoPeople don’t always behave consistently. A lot of plot holes can be explained away that way, and readers/viewers instinctively do that, because they don’t have the assumption that people are consistent.
- kiba 5y agoI don't see how it matters if it involves science fiction or not. I am looking for verisimilitude, so I am always asking myself if characters' actions make sense, consistency in the rules, and so forth. There has to be a kind of internal logic a story follows, even if characters constantly make stupid decision. Most stories failed that test because writers don't care. Here's an example: There are magic carpet everywhere that can fly, and yet nothing changed about the worldbuilding. People just drive cars and do all the modern things people do, except sometime you can see magic carpets showing up.
- tigerlily 5y ago> Glorfindel-of-freakin-Gondolin Pretty sure it's a different Glorfindel, as the original died in battle slaying a Balrog shortly after the fall of Gondolin. Edit: against->slaying
- udbhavs 5y agoThey were originally different but retconned to be the same character at the end I believe: https://www.reddit.com/r/lotr/comments/9ie9ka/two_glorfindels/ https://www.reddit.com/r/lotr/comments/9ie9ka/two_glorfindel...
- tigerlily 5y agoAh, it seems I need to read deeper. Thanks for clarifying :)
- inglor_cz 5y agoElves could be released from the Halls of Mandos and reincarnated. It wasn't totally common, but it happened in the Tolkien's world more than once. There is, for example, a remark in The Silmarillion that "Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar". Finrod was killed in Sauron's captivity in Middle Earth.
- db48x 5y agoIt could be fairly common, but they would be reincarnated in Aman where Mandos is and thus would have to have sailed back to Middle Earth in order to show up in the stories. There’s just not a lot of traffic going in that direction by the the Third Age.
- inglor_cz 5y agoYes, we do not really know what was the norm in Aman. The Kinslaying was considered a great crime, though, which indicates that the murdered Teleri could not be just simply brought back to life en masse.
- bell-cot 5y agoThis is the sort of article (long, detailed, written by a high-level expert) which reassures me that NO, I really shouldn't bother to watch movies (or TV, etc.). Once you're past the visual spectacle, and "everybody else is watching"...movies, TV, etc. are generally inferior to books. And consistent competence is far easier to find in authors than in studios + producers + writers + directors + ... (Article is from 2020...OTOH, the article is hardly about 2020 situations or events.)
- haolez 5y agoThere are exceptions. I found The Martian's movie much more entertaining than the book (I've read the book before the movie came out). The book felt like a shore most of the time.
- darkerside 5y agoI felt the opposite. The movie was like a Cliffs Notes for the book.
- udbhavs 5y agopeople usually prioritize entertainment over information density when it comes to movies
- pferde 5y agoI thoroughly enjoyed both, each for what it is.
- darkerside 5y agoCurious, did you read the book or watch the movie first?
- pferde 5y agoI watched the movie, then I read the book.
- thom 5y agoHeh, I am hoping we can keep up the pace of ACOUP articles on the front page because they truly are a delight.
- jpmoral 5y agoReading this brings back childhood memories of reading Two Centuries of Warfare (Chant, Holmes, and Koenig). I think this is why I've always both been attracted to and deeply disappointed by RTS games. The resource gathering, materiel production, troop mobilisation, and supply aspects don't live up to the (perhaps unfairly expected) promise inherent in the name. https://www.biblio.com/book/two-centuries-warfare-christopher-chant-richard/d/147955437 https://www.biblio.com/book/two-centuries-warfare-christophe...
- probably_wrong 5y ago> [Operations] is a level of analysis between tactics (how do I fight the battle when I get there?) and strategy (why am I fighting overall?). Does anyone here know a book dedicated to these topics? I always wanted to pick a "military textbook" (assuming such a thing exists), apply its lessons to Age of Empires, and see how far that gets me.
- moffkalast 5y agoWololo
- Yoric 5y agoMaybe Clausewitz, _Of War_? If my memory serves, this is largely lessons from Napoleonic strategies/tactics/....
- wjnc 5y agoYou should browse acoup because he often mentions sources for different avenues of thought. He even has a tag for [operations] [1] Now that I am searching - he does use the operations level mainly to make fun of books, series and movies where his historical examples have more sources. [1] https://acoup.blog/tag/operations/ https://acoup.blog/tag/operations/
- mcphage 5y agoI would love if the author compiled his many blog essays into a book!
- hutzlibu 5y agoClausewitz and Sun Tzu are classics, but for epic battles closer to realism, I rather recommend the Total War series than Age of Empire. Mainly, because in real war, troop morale is a main factor - and the best war tactics are those, that crush the enemies spirit and not their bones. This is a main quote from Sun Tzu(from the back of my head): if you manage to route the enemy forces in panic, you gain more, than slaughtering them all. Because they will spread the fear of your troops themself. (but this part is not captured well in total war, as there you gain indeed benefits from high body count and enemy troops remain the same fighting spirit, even if they ran away in terror all the battles before)
- unnouinceput 5y agoDelightful read, as usual from Mr. Devereaux. However this is an Earth historian analysis vs. an unnamed world which has magic, elves, immortals, dragons and so on. Pretty sure it doesn't apply. I'll take Tolkien's description as being 100% accurate due to those reasons.
- jpmoral 5y agoI might have missed something but it seemed to me that the author neither stated nor implied that Tolkien was in any way inaccurate. He praises the writing, illustrating how Theoden's,Saruman's and the others' actions made sense in the context of the situation and their own level of expertise as military commanders.
- endominus 5y agoYes, most of the faults he raises are in where Peter Jackson's movies diverged from the books. Tolkien, he repeatedly says, had an excellent grasp of the calculus and rationale of war. And to the GP's point, most of the realities of war, as long as we are dealing with biological entities in earth-like conditions, apply. Movement of troops, logistics, centers of power, etc apply as much to Middle-Earth (don't know why they referred to an "unnamed world") as they do to ours, as long as armies are relevant. The siege of Helm's Deep is a case where the armies are explicitly relevant.
- fennecfoxen 5y ago> second most hard-done-by character in the adaptation for being left out, after only Glorfindel-of-freakin-Gondolin who chivalrously lends Arwen his superstar appearance Not a Bombadil fan, I see!
- stevefan1999 5y agounder the helm's deep. I was expecting a Kubernetes article, only to get bamboozled XD