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Multiplication and division predate writing by many centuries. Also, humans were comfortably at the top for the food chain even before we needed arithmetic or

Multiplication and division predate writing by many centuries. Also, humans were comfortably at the top for the food chain even before we needed arithmetic or writing. (Arguably, we started to need arithmetic and writing because we ate all the animals.)

Maursault 5y ago
> Also, humans were comfortably at the top for the food chain even before we needed arithmetic or writing. Definitely, except for lions, tigers, leopards, jaguars, cougars, anacondas, pythons, sharks, crocodiles, alligators, bears, wolves, hyenas, coyotes, boars and ants, all of which have hunted humans and have maneaters among their ranks. Humans were never apex predators... there was always something else that ate them, and though it is less often nowadays, it still happens. Whatever virtue humans have as a species, it has nothing to do with being able to kill everything. I would call that an indulgence, not a virtue. Today, being able to kill something contributes nothing to survival. Compare effective hunting skills to skills that generate significant income. Money has far more to contribute to survival and procreation than having lethal hunting skills, an entirely worthless skill to have in nearly all modern societies. There are so few societies left where hunting is necessary, and we're talking about a few thousands or tens of thousands of people at most among 7B.
- otabdeveloper4 5y ago
  I'm specifically replying to this: > Once humans are put into that setting (zero education), we are no longer comfortably at the top of the food-chain. Which isn't true. Humans used to hunt mammoths way back when we had zero education. (Some even claim that we hunted them to extinction.) It doesn't get really get more 'top of the food chain' than that.
  - Maursault 5y ago
    > It doesn't get really get more 'top of the food chain' than that. Sure it does. Aside from giant birds, crocodiles, and leopards, early humans likely had to contend with bears, sabertooth cats, snakes, hyenas, Komodo dragons, and even other hominins. As prey, the past was not a pleasant place for humans and our ancestors, because they were prey, not apex predators. You know, apex means nothing eats it. Just last year an alligator ate a man in Louisiana and they will again. That sort of disqualifies our species as "apex." The alligator is an apex predator because nothing predates them. Making sense yet?
- kevinmchugh 5y ago
  Are there human groups that don't educate their children? Human inventions and discoveries can definitely be lost/forgotten (the bow and arrow was forgotten at some point on the way to Australia, hence boomerangs and atlatls). People from cultures that don't have multiplication and division have the capability to learn it.

Maursault 5y ago

> Also, humans were comfortably at the top for the food chain even before we needed arithmetic or writing. Definitely, except for lions, tigers, leopards, jaguars, cougars, anacondas, pythons, sharks, crocodiles, alligators, bears, wolves, hyenas, coyotes, boars and ants, all of which have hunted humans and have maneaters among their ranks. Humans were never apex predators... there was always something else that ate them, and though it is less often nowadays, it still happens. Whatever virtue humans have as a species, it has nothing to do with being able to kill everything. I would call that an indulgence, not a virtue. Today, being able to kill something contributes nothing to survival. Compare effective hunting skills to skills that generate significant income. Money has far more to contribute to survival and procreation than having lethal hunting skills, an entirely worthless skill to have in nearly all modern societies. There are so few societies left where hunting is necessary, and we're talking about a few thousands or tens of thousands of people at most among 7B.

otabdeveloper4 5y ago
I'm specifically replying to this: > Once humans are put into that setting (zero education), we are no longer comfortably at the top of the food-chain. Which isn't true. Humans used to hunt mammoths way back when we had zero education. (Some even claim that we hunted them to extinction.) It doesn't get really get more 'top of the food chain' than that.
- Maursault 5y ago
  > It doesn't get really get more 'top of the food chain' than that. Sure it does. Aside from giant birds, crocodiles, and leopards, early humans likely had to contend with bears, sabertooth cats, snakes, hyenas, Komodo dragons, and even other hominins. As prey, the past was not a pleasant place for humans and our ancestors, because they were prey, not apex predators. You know, apex means nothing eats it. Just last year an alligator ate a man in Louisiana and they will again. That sort of disqualifies our species as "apex." The alligator is an apex predator because nothing predates them. Making sense yet?
kevinmchugh 5y ago
Are there human groups that don't educate their children? Human inventions and discoveries can definitely be lost/forgotten (the bow and arrow was forgotten at some point on the way to Australia, hence boomerangs and atlatls). People from cultures that don't have multiplication and division have the capability to learn it.