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The author miss the point that coding complexity is exponential, not linear. I.e. a lot of people can understand 10-20 lines of code, less can 100 LOC, less ca

The author miss the point that coding complexity is exponential, not linear. I.e. a lot of people can understand 10-20 lines of code, less can 100 LOC, less can 1000 LOC, maybe top 10% can understand 10K, 1% - 100K. So no code can work, just that the size limit of the program will be low (10-100 LOC) . However, most program start at low LOC, but ends up with high LOC, where the low code tools breaks. Hence, the low code tools basically guarantee the future of the elite geeks.

trzy 5y ago
There is a difference between understanding 10, 100, and maybe 1000+ but beyond that I'm not so sure. Who really understands a 100k code base they didn't write themselves except at a high level anyway? I think once a developer accrues an understanding of certain key abstractions, it's just a matter of exposure and practice working within code bases. No-code is a separate issue. Visually organized programs become very hard to understand very quickly.
- streetcat1 5y ago
  Right, a professional programmer uses advanced tools and design pattern such that 100K can look like 1001K or 1000 100 LOC. The complexity of a software system is due to interaction between its components. A professional developer know how to make it N instead of N2. Note that most of the big software system that you know, were written by a single/two developers - C++/ Java / Unix / Linux / Riser FS / Kubernetes. This can be evident by the power law distribution of github commits for every popular github project.
onion2k 5y ago
So no code can work, just that the size limit of the program will be low (10-100 LOC) This ignores the fact that each "line of code" in a "no code" app does significantly more than 1 line of code. The benefit of no code tools is that they solve the very problem you're claiming stops them being useful.
- reilly3000 5y ago
  Ok replace LOC with ‘Steps’. Its domain complexity, data types, relations, state, and the network that makes all of this hard. No-code doesn’t solve for big problems, but it sure does work for integration and the next million CRUD apps that fit highly specific niches. Somebody who can write clever excel formulas can pick up a no code tool and be productive on day 1. That doesn’t mean they can go from there to writing an operating system - there is higher and lower abstractions that need to be considered, which comes from both experiences and the concepts they mature coding languages expose you to.
  - onion2k 5y ago
    I don't think anyone is suggesting people will make operating systems in a no code app. They're designed to make building CRUD apps easy. The thing is though ... CRUD apps are 90% of the dev industry (by dev headcount, not revenue).
jacquesm 5y ago
The trick to solving this is called scope. Because even that 1% won't be able to understand 100K lines all at once. They can also only understand the 20 lines in front of them (hopefully!). But they know how to use abstraction, and once that tool is in your box divide and conquer will get you to 100K LOC without losing your way.
kthejoker2 5y ago
Relevant blog post https://www.teamten.com/lawrence/writings/norris-numbers.html https://www.teamten.com/lawrence/writings/norris-numbers.htm...

trzy 5y ago

There is a difference between understanding 10, 100, and maybe 1000+ but beyond that I'm not so sure. Who really understands a 100k code base they didn't write themselves except at a high level anyway? I think once a developer accrues an understanding of certain key abstractions, it's just a matter of exposure and practice working within code bases. No-code is a separate issue. Visually organized programs become very hard to understand very quickly.

streetcat1 5y ago
Right, a professional programmer uses advanced tools and design pattern such that 100K can look like 1001K or 1000 100 LOC. The complexity of a software system is due to interaction between its components. A professional developer know how to make it N instead of N2. Note that most of the big software system that you know, were written by a single/two developers - C++/ Java / Unix / Linux / Riser FS / Kubernetes. This can be evident by the power law distribution of github commits for every popular github project.

onion2k 5y ago

So no code can work, just that the size limit of the program will be low (10-100 LOC) This ignores the fact that each "line of code" in a "no code" app does significantly more than 1 line of code. The benefit of no code tools is that they solve the very problem you're claiming stops them being useful.

reilly3000 5y ago
Ok replace LOC with ‘Steps’. Its domain complexity, data types, relations, state, and the network that makes all of this hard. No-code doesn’t solve for big problems, but it sure does work for integration and the next million CRUD apps that fit highly specific niches. Somebody who can write clever excel formulas can pick up a no code tool and be productive on day 1. That doesn’t mean they can go from there to writing an operating system - there is higher and lower abstractions that need to be considered, which comes from both experiences and the concepts they mature coding languages expose you to.
- onion2k 5y ago
  I don't think anyone is suggesting people will make operating systems in a no code app. They're designed to make building CRUD apps easy. The thing is though ... CRUD apps are 90% of the dev industry (by dev headcount, not revenue).

jacquesm 5y ago

The trick to solving this is called scope. Because even that 1% won't be able to understand 100K lines all at once. They can also only understand the 20 lines in front of them (hopefully!). But they know how to use abstraction, and once that tool is in your box divide and conquer will get you to 100K LOC without losing your way.

kthejoker2 5y ago

Relevant blog post https://www.teamten.com/lawrence/writings/norris-numbers.html https://www.teamten.com/lawrence/writings/norris-numbers.htm...