4 ms·

You can buy the device without agreeing to any terms of service. Now you may not be able to use iOS without accepting the TOS durning setup. However, the fact i

by anfilt 5y ago

You can buy the device without agreeing to any terms of service. Now you may not be able to use iOS without accepting the TOS durning setup. However, the fact is the hardware is still a separate entity from OS and is still locked down. The problem still persists that apple is selling hardware that you don’t have full control over. What if I wanted to run linux instead or even bare metal code that I wrote myself? Apple does not permit this nor will sign such software so that boot-rom will load it to RAM. Just because your average user may not do those things does not mean their rights are not being effectively diminished compared to other tangible property they buy.

threeseed 5y ago
And you are free to do whatever you like with the hardware including installing any software you choose. Apple is under no obligation however to compromise the security of their device in order to help you.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  Correction, they're under no obligation to provide support if I decide to compromise the security of my device. That decision should be left to the end-user though, and Apple's repeated action against people loading arbitrary code onto the iPhone is user-hostile, regardless of how you frame it. Offering third-party distribution channels is no less harmful than forcing users to access your content through a web browser, and the longer they deny it, the more frugal they'll appear when they face their final judgement. As of today, 35 states are stepping forward to call them on this behavior. Who knows what that figure will look like in a year's time.
  - threeseed 5y ago
    > Offering third-party distribution channels is no less harmful than forcing users to access your content through a web browser This technically is ridiculous and completely untrue. Web applications, by design, have a tiny fraction of the capabilities of a fully fledged mobile app.
    - vorpalhex 5y ago
      Well yeah, Apple refuses to support any modern browser API in Safari.. and prohibits any other browser engine.
      - smoldesu 5y ago
        Don't [0] worry, they're[1] perfectly happy[2] to catch[3] up on the[4] critical vulnerability[5] front. [0] https://jonbottarini.com/2021/12/09/dont-reply-a-clever-phishing-method-in-apples-mail-app/ https://jonbottarini.com/2021/12/09/dont-reply-a-clever-phis... [1] https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/16/22886809/safari-15-bug-leak-browsing-history-personal-information https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/16/22886809/safari-15-bug-le... [2] https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2021-30858 https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2021-30858 [3] https://www.ryanpickren.com/safari-uxss https://www.ryanpickren.com/safari-uxss [4] https://www.cvedetails.com/cve/CVE-2021-30954/ https://www.cvedetails.com/cve/CVE-2021-30954/ [5] https://www.exploit-db.com/exploits/11567 https://www.exploit-db.com/exploits/11567
- anfilt 5y ago
  Apple is not under obligation to help you yes. However, that is no excuse to limit your property rights of your tangible property via extralegal means. Nor is it okay either. A sale of tangible property generally means the the transfer of all property rights of that object to the buyer. Also your not free to install any software on the device unless your lucky enough to find an exploit.
oneplane 5y ago
> However, the fact is the hardware is still a separate entity from OS and is still locked down. Is that a fact? I think not. (don't misunderstand me, I would love mobile hardware to be 'the same' as fixed PCs, but as far as the world is concerned, it is not.)

by anfilt 5y ago

threeseed 5y ago

And you are free to do whatever you like with the hardware including installing any software you choose. Apple is under no obligation however to compromise the security of their device in order to help you.

smoldesu 5y ago
Correction, they're under no obligation to provide support if I decide to compromise the security of my device. That decision should be left to the end-user though, and Apple's repeated action against people loading arbitrary code onto the iPhone is user-hostile, regardless of how you frame it. Offering third-party distribution channels is no less harmful than forcing users to access your content through a web browser, and the longer they deny it, the more frugal they'll appear when they face their final judgement. As of today, 35 states are stepping forward to call them on this behavior. Who knows what that figure will look like in a year's time.
- threeseed 5y ago
  > Offering third-party distribution channels is no less harmful than forcing users to access your content through a web browser This technically is ridiculous and completely untrue. Web applications, by design, have a tiny fraction of the capabilities of a fully fledged mobile app.
  - vorpalhex 5y ago
    Well yeah, Apple refuses to support any modern browser API in Safari.. and prohibits any other browser engine.
    - smoldesu 5y ago
      Don't [0] worry, they're[1] perfectly happy[2] to catch[3] up on the[4] critical vulnerability[5] front. [0] https://jonbottarini.com/2021/12/09/dont-reply-a-clever-phishing-method-in-apples-mail-app/ https://jonbottarini.com/2021/12/09/dont-reply-a-clever-phis... [1] https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/16/22886809/safari-15-bug-leak-browsing-history-personal-information https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/16/22886809/safari-15-bug-le... [2] https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2021-30858 https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2021-30858 [3] https://www.ryanpickren.com/safari-uxss https://www.ryanpickren.com/safari-uxss [4] https://www.cvedetails.com/cve/CVE-2021-30954/ https://www.cvedetails.com/cve/CVE-2021-30954/ [5] https://www.exploit-db.com/exploits/11567 https://www.exploit-db.com/exploits/11567
anfilt 5y ago
Apple is not under obligation to help you yes. However, that is no excuse to limit your property rights of your tangible property via extralegal means. Nor is it okay either. A sale of tangible property generally means the the transfer of all property rights of that object to the buyer. Also your not free to install any software on the device unless your lucky enough to find an exploit.

oneplane 5y ago

> However, the fact is the hardware is still a separate entity from OS and is still locked down. Is that a fact? I think not. (don't misunderstand me, I would love mobile hardware to be 'the same' as fixed PCs, but as far as the world is concerned, it is not.)