4 ms·

> Allowing side-loading would only have a net positive impact on those who desire it, and zero impact on you who wants the walled garden. No, it affects everyo

> Allowing side-loading would only have a net positive impact on those who desire it, and zero impact on you who wants the walled garden. No, it affects everyone, even the people who don’t want it. Consider the time when Facebook got caught spying on minors by abusing their iOS enterprise certificate, and expand that to everybody. If Apple allowed sideloading, Facebook could just remove their application from Apple’s App Store. They would still have roughly the same amount of users, because even if a person doesn’t want to sideload, most of them will do it anyway if it’s the only way to get Facebook. And now all of those people, who didn’t want to sideload, will be subject to whatever Facebook wants to do that Apple’s rules stopped them from doing. This isn’t really about individual choice, it’s about the effect on the ecosystem. As soon as you give giants like Facebook a way to opt-out from Apple’s rules, it affects the whole ecosystem, not just the people who choose to sideload. Sideloading would probably be quite convenient for me personally. But I would rather not have sideloading because of its effect on the ecosystem.

anfilt 5y ago
The thing is with the facebook event was apple signed their app so running it was relatively painless. Take the instance of epic trying to sideload on android it flopped because the friction from prompts to enable the feature. Although, I am of the opinion letting people just load their own personal signing keys. Its not like facebook can sign their app with their own key and expect to work on other peoples devices in that situation. Unless its signed by apple’s private key that all devices would have stored. However, if you had your own signing key you could sign the linux kernel ect or whatever you want, but its definitely not a click/tap and install situation with your own signing key.
- JimDabell 5y ago
  People will jump through a lot of hoops to install crapware though. Facebook even has to put big red warnings in browser devtools to stop people running code from scammers that will take over their account.
  - anfilt 5y ago
    It eventual comes to point where people have to take personal responsibility for their actions. If you have effectively informed the user of something and they still proceed its on them. Especially, at the expense of everyone else's property rights by allowing a corporation to effectively infringe upon their property rights via extralegal means. Further, its not just doom and gloom on other systems where being able to install software from any source as you please is the default.
    - JimDabell 5y ago
      > It eventual comes to point where people have to take personal responsibility for their actions. You’re missing the original point I was making though. In this scenario, Facebook removes their application from Apple’s App Store and almost everybody sideloads it. Ultimately, what happens to the people who do that is their own responsibility. Yeah, I get that. Where does this leave the people who want to use Facebook under Apple’s rules but refuse to sideload it? They have had something taken away from them. Sideloading affects them even if they choose not to sideload. It affects the entire ecosystem, not just the people who sideload. “Just don’t sideload” advice doesn’t work.
      - anfilt 5y ago
        Like in theory Facebook could try something like that. This is a what if scenario still. If we look at android they have not pulled their Apps from googles store. So what is the basis they would do this for iOS? Moreover, depending how apple theoretically would release grip the have on other people's devices also plays into effect. If apple just let you load a signing key for the boot-rom and left it at that. The amount technical friction would likely be too high to be easily abused at large.
      - ThatPlayer 5y ago
        >Where does this leave the people who want to use Facebook under Apple’s rules but refuse to sideload it? You can use Safari If Facebook pulled their app from the Apple App Store right now, would you be forced to use Android? You'd say they can't, because they'd lose the entire iOS marketshare, which is exactly the problem: Apple are forcing people to use their Apple App Store using their iOS monopoly power marketshare. Which is anti-competitive.

anfilt 5y ago

The thing is with the facebook event was apple signed their app so running it was relatively painless. Take the instance of epic trying to sideload on android it flopped because the friction from prompts to enable the feature. Although, I am of the opinion letting people just load their own personal signing keys. Its not like facebook can sign their app with their own key and expect to work on other peoples devices in that situation. Unless its signed by apple’s private key that all devices would have stored. However, if you had your own signing key you could sign the linux kernel ect or whatever you want, but its definitely not a click/tap and install situation with your own signing key.

JimDabell 5y ago
People will jump through a lot of hoops to install crapware though. Facebook even has to put big red warnings in browser devtools to stop people running code from scammers that will take over their account.
- anfilt 5y ago
  It eventual comes to point where people have to take personal responsibility for their actions. If you have effectively informed the user of something and they still proceed its on them. Especially, at the expense of everyone else's property rights by allowing a corporation to effectively infringe upon their property rights via extralegal means. Further, its not just doom and gloom on other systems where being able to install software from any source as you please is the default.
  - JimDabell 5y ago
    > It eventual comes to point where people have to take personal responsibility for their actions. You’re missing the original point I was making though. In this scenario, Facebook removes their application from Apple’s App Store and almost everybody sideloads it. Ultimately, what happens to the people who do that is their own responsibility. Yeah, I get that. Where does this leave the people who want to use Facebook under Apple’s rules but refuse to sideload it? They have had something taken away from them. Sideloading affects them even if they choose not to sideload. It affects the entire ecosystem, not just the people who sideload. “Just don’t sideload” advice doesn’t work.
    - anfilt 5y ago
      Like in theory Facebook could try something like that. This is a what if scenario still. If we look at android they have not pulled their Apps from googles store. So what is the basis they would do this for iOS? Moreover, depending how apple theoretically would release grip the have on other people's devices also plays into effect. If apple just let you load a signing key for the boot-rom and left it at that. The amount technical friction would likely be too high to be easily abused at large.
    - ThatPlayer 5y ago
      >Where does this leave the people who want to use Facebook under Apple’s rules but refuse to sideload it? You can use Safari If Facebook pulled their app from the Apple App Store right now, would you be forced to use Android? You'd say they can't, because they'd lose the entire iOS marketshare, which is exactly the problem: Apple are forcing people to use their Apple App Store using their iOS monopoly power marketshare. Which is anti-competitive.