3 ms·

You’re assuming VR is a paradigm shift and not just a gimmicky console like the Wii. There’s nothing particularly interesting in VR, at least not yet. Most gam

You’re assuming VR is a paradigm shift and not just a gimmicky console like the Wii. There’s nothing particularly interesting in VR, at least not yet. Most games suck. The ones that don’t are largely stationary with little rotation if at all. There’s a fundamental problem that humans, even when not constrained by space, aren’t very agile, and much less so wearing a vr headset. It still sucks. I have an index.

chaostheory 5y ago
Do you really have an Index? The reason I ask is because I highly disagree with your statement about games being “largely stationary with little rotation at all”. It’s the exact opposite, which is why having a wire is so annoying. VR is a huge paradigm shift. It’s just still in its infancy. Similar to the internet in the mid 1990s.
- oneoff786 5y ago
  Like what games?
  - chaostheory 5y ago
    Virtually every first person VR game that isn't a driving or flying sim needs turning or it kills immersion: - Alyx - Boneworks - Blades & Sorcery / GORN - Skyrim / Fallout 4 VR - Onward, Zero Caliber, Population One, Contractors - Racket NX - Minecraft - Lone Echo - holopoint There's really too many games to name, and I can name more. A huge pain point for me prior to getting the Quest 2 was tangled wires from too much turning. The only games where there's no turning involved are fitness apps like Fit XR and ping pong. Even Beatsaber and SuperNatural have 360 degree levels. Your comment makes me wonder if you've ever used your Index, or if you even own a VR headset because it sounds bizarre.
    - oneoff786 5y ago
      Alyx is cool but it also sucks. The little interactions with items feel novel. The combat is bad. It’s a thin layer of game design tricks to make you think you’re in something intricate but it’s actually dumb as rocks. The lightning dogs are the peak of this. Even on the hardest difficulty they telegraph their attacks for like… 10 seconds. It’s not clear if it’s possible to dodge it by physically walking 5m. The game wants you to teleport pretty much anywhere to “dodge” it. I don’t blame valve for this. What they almost certainly realized is that humans are incompetent in vr so the enemies need to be dumb as rocks. Not that the AI is bad or anything, but the principles behind their behavior are built for the fact that humans are slow, have low situational awareness, and and especially in vr don’t have a good intuition for where their body is exposed. The electric dogs are still decently challenging. But the limitations on it were incredibly immersion breaking to me, much more than having a helmet benefited. Superhot solves this the other way by having very short high failure levels and just letting you lose due to human incompetence at your own pace. It works pretty well but it’s not a generalizable strategy for other games. I’m looking to do boneworks next. I’ve never felt wires were a real problem. Mostly because the games I play don’t involve moving around much. I have tried wireless. I have also done one of those vr domes with a huge open warehouses and multiplayer vr shooters with mild graphics but big gun peripherals. This is the biggest freedom you could possibly have. In my experience playing and watching others, people just slowly walk from place to place, rotate in place, and stand still shooting while monsters get too close and “hit” them because melee attacks feel unintuitive still. They move like they’re an old resident evil tank control character lol.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - zmmmmm 5y ago
        Glad to find someone else unimpressed by Alyx. I cannot work out why people are so impressed with it. It's just a super impressive sandboxed VR demo really. The whole world is highly constrained - you can't go anywhere they don't want you to, you can only pick up and manipulate a subset of objects they have modeled properly and there all these arbitrary restrictions that just frustrate you from creatively solving any of the challenges. Ends up a totally linear storyline that's more like watching a movie than a real open world VR game (like Skyrim, for example).
telxosser 5y ago
The fitness apps are the most absurd thing. No one that is serious about fitness is working out for any length of time with a headset on. If you could go to a real virtual gym and lift virtual weights that was no different than lifting real weights, that would be amazing. That would be revolutionary because so many problems would have to be solved. Instead, the headset has literally solved nothing in the last 30 years. There is a video of Jaron Lanier on youtube showing a vr headset and vr glove in 1990. It could literally be a VR advertisement next year and you wouldn't know the difference.
- zmmmmm 5y ago
  there are bunch of things here that are just simply empirically wrong ... The fitness apps and communities are real ... there are subscription services with virtual coaches etc. I myself workout at least 45 mins a day. It's the best workout I've ever had - Synthriders, Crazy Kung Fu, Pistol Whip ... they have you dripping with sweat and surprisingly good strength training (as in, my arms are bulking up more than they ever did with actual weights). And nothing has been solved in 30 years? Do you understand the Quest is a wireless fully stand alone mobile device? Just that alone is a revolution. It does fully controller free hand tracking. It does 6DoF positional tracking with no base stations or external equipment. I can't really conclude anything other than that you simply have not even looked in real life at modern VR and have no idea what you are talking about.
- chaostheory 5y ago
  I feel that you need to actually try it before dismissing it. I’ve been using VR for HIIT for almost two years now. It can also integrate with your stationary bike or rower. I’ve lost 20 lbs and it helped dropped my cholesterol by 100 point playing VR games. The only thing absent would be weight lifting. That probably will be integrated with AR and not VR due to safety issues.

chaostheory 5y ago

Do you really have an Index? The reason I ask is because I highly disagree with your statement about games being “largely stationary with little rotation at all”. It’s the exact opposite, which is why having a wire is so annoying. VR is a huge paradigm shift. It’s just still in its infancy. Similar to the internet in the mid 1990s.

oneoff786 5y ago
Like what games?
- chaostheory 5y ago
  Virtually every first person VR game that isn't a driving or flying sim needs turning or it kills immersion: - Alyx - Boneworks - Blades & Sorcery / GORN - Skyrim / Fallout 4 VR - Onward, Zero Caliber, Population One, Contractors - Racket NX - Minecraft - Lone Echo - holopoint There's really too many games to name, and I can name more. A huge pain point for me prior to getting the Quest 2 was tangled wires from too much turning. The only games where there's no turning involved are fitness apps like Fit XR and ping pong. Even Beatsaber and SuperNatural have 360 degree levels. Your comment makes me wonder if you've ever used your Index, or if you even own a VR headset because it sounds bizarre.
  - oneoff786 5y ago
    Alyx is cool but it also sucks. The little interactions with items feel novel. The combat is bad. It’s a thin layer of game design tricks to make you think you’re in something intricate but it’s actually dumb as rocks. The lightning dogs are the peak of this. Even on the hardest difficulty they telegraph their attacks for like… 10 seconds. It’s not clear if it’s possible to dodge it by physically walking 5m. The game wants you to teleport pretty much anywhere to “dodge” it. I don’t blame valve for this. What they almost certainly realized is that humans are incompetent in vr so the enemies need to be dumb as rocks. Not that the AI is bad or anything, but the principles behind their behavior are built for the fact that humans are slow, have low situational awareness, and and especially in vr don’t have a good intuition for where their body is exposed. The electric dogs are still decently challenging. But the limitations on it were incredibly immersion breaking to me, much more than having a helmet benefited. Superhot solves this the other way by having very short high failure levels and just letting you lose due to human incompetence at your own pace. It works pretty well but it’s not a generalizable strategy for other games. I’m looking to do boneworks next. I’ve never felt wires were a real problem. Mostly because the games I play don’t involve moving around much. I have tried wireless. I have also done one of those vr domes with a huge open warehouses and multiplayer vr shooters with mild graphics but big gun peripherals. This is the biggest freedom you could possibly have. In my experience playing and watching others, people just slowly walk from place to place, rotate in place, and stand still shooting while monsters get too close and “hit” them because melee attacks feel unintuitive still. They move like they’re an old resident evil tank control character lol.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - zmmmmm 5y ago
      Glad to find someone else unimpressed by Alyx. I cannot work out why people are so impressed with it. It's just a super impressive sandboxed VR demo really. The whole world is highly constrained - you can't go anywhere they don't want you to, you can only pick up and manipulate a subset of objects they have modeled properly and there all these arbitrary restrictions that just frustrate you from creatively solving any of the challenges. Ends up a totally linear storyline that's more like watching a movie than a real open world VR game (like Skyrim, for example).

telxosser 5y ago

The fitness apps are the most absurd thing. No one that is serious about fitness is working out for any length of time with a headset on. If you could go to a real virtual gym and lift virtual weights that was no different than lifting real weights, that would be amazing. That would be revolutionary because so many problems would have to be solved. Instead, the headset has literally solved nothing in the last 30 years. There is a video of Jaron Lanier on youtube showing a vr headset and vr glove in 1990. It could literally be a VR advertisement next year and you wouldn't know the difference.

zmmmmm 5y ago
there are bunch of things here that are just simply empirically wrong ... The fitness apps and communities are real ... there are subscription services with virtual coaches etc. I myself workout at least 45 mins a day. It's the best workout I've ever had - Synthriders, Crazy Kung Fu, Pistol Whip ... they have you dripping with sweat and surprisingly good strength training (as in, my arms are bulking up more than they ever did with actual weights). And nothing has been solved in 30 years? Do you understand the Quest is a wireless fully stand alone mobile device? Just that alone is a revolution. It does fully controller free hand tracking. It does 6DoF positional tracking with no base stations or external equipment. I can't really conclude anything other than that you simply have not even looked in real life at modern VR and have no idea what you are talking about.
chaostheory 5y ago
I feel that you need to actually try it before dismissing it. I’ve been using VR for HIIT for almost two years now. It can also integrate with your stationary bike or rower. I’ve lost 20 lbs and it helped dropped my cholesterol by 100 point playing VR games. The only thing absent would be weight lifting. That probably will be integrated with AR and not VR due to safety issues.