5 ms·

> Your "we" in the second example is the majority of network users - any network where that isn't true is not decentralized. So... you’re saying it’s mutable.

philistine 5y ago
You both are talking from the unsaid point of view that an immutable public ledger is a good thing. The reality of our world disagrees with your unsaid compact. Nothing needs an immutable public ledger. Any fraud due to shipping, or banking, or taxes, is a problem of inaccurate entry of data into a ledger, not nefarious changes to what already exists.
- brian_cloutier 5y ago
  Immutable ledgers are a godsend and are useful in many different contexts: - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certificate_Transparency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certificate_Transparency - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lab_notebook https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lab_notebook - https://www.newamerica.org/digital-impact-governance-initiative/digital-impact-and-governance-initiative-projects/digi-blogs/project-capsule-georgia-land-titling-system/ https://www.newamerica.org/digital-impact-governance-initiat... Adjustments needed for shipping, banking, or taxes are trivially accommodated; those are additional events which can be appended to the log.
  - philistine 5y ago
    None of your examples are all, at the same time, immutable, public, or ledgers. The Georgian land thingie is the most interesting, but a Georgian judge could definitely order a change in ownership due to incorrect data entered into the ledger, so it's not immutable.
    - brian_cloutier 5y ago
      > a Georgian judge could definitely order a change in ownership due to incorrect data entered into the ledger, so it's not immutable. There seems to be a misunderstanding. The ledger is immutable. That doesn't mean the state is immutable! Immutable state is not very useful. A judge could absolutely order that the ownership of some parcel is changed, but the change will appear as a separate record and everybody will be able to see the change and nobody can credibly deny that the change happened, not even the judge.

philistine 5y ago

You both are talking from the unsaid point of view that an immutable public ledger is a good thing. The reality of our world disagrees with your unsaid compact. Nothing needs an immutable public ledger. Any fraud due to shipping, or banking, or taxes, is a problem of inaccurate entry of data into a ledger, not nefarious changes to what already exists.

brian_cloutier 5y ago
Immutable ledgers are a godsend and are useful in many different contexts: - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certificate_Transparency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certificate_Transparency - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lab_notebook https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lab_notebook - https://www.newamerica.org/digital-impact-governance-initiative/digital-impact-and-governance-initiative-projects/digi-blogs/project-capsule-georgia-land-titling-system/ https://www.newamerica.org/digital-impact-governance-initiat... Adjustments needed for shipping, banking, or taxes are trivially accommodated; those are additional events which can be appended to the log.
- philistine 5y ago
  None of your examples are all, at the same time, immutable, public, or ledgers. The Georgian land thingie is the most interesting, but a Georgian judge could definitely order a change in ownership due to incorrect data entered into the ledger, so it's not immutable.
  - brian_cloutier 5y ago
    > a Georgian judge could definitely order a change in ownership due to incorrect data entered into the ledger, so it's not immutable. There seems to be a misunderstanding. The ledger is immutable. That doesn't mean the state is immutable! Immutable state is not very useful. A judge could absolutely order that the ownership of some parcel is changed, but the change will appear as a separate record and everybody will be able to see the change and nobody can credibly deny that the change happened, not even the judge.