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That is a big one, is it not? Do we call humans "wolves on two feet"? Communication and cooperation are things orcas exhibit over and over. Also, wolves, as fa

by bmitc 5y ago

That is a big one, is it not? Do we call humans "wolves on two feet"? Communication and cooperation are things orcas exhibit over and over. Also, wolves, as far as I know, are purely instinctual and do not communicate or pass down learned knowledge. Orcas do. There are several documented instances of one or a few individuals in an orca pod discovering some novel way to eat something or discovering a new animal altogether to eat that is then taught within the pod. There's one specific hunting technique for mammal hunting orcas that has been observed that showcases this. When hunting mammals, who have excellent hearing and are intelligent themselves, orcas can sometimes reach a point where it's not working. So, the pod of orcas will resume chatting (vocalizing) and start to leave the area while they choose a single orca to stay silently behind. Once the other orcas leave, the mammals (usually seals) relax, giving the silent orca hiding a chance to capture. Once capture, the other orcas return to share the meal. Wolves don't do anything like that.

beerandt 5y ago
Wolves manage to cooperate fine, communicating with both howls and non-verbal cues. What's more impressive (be it humans playing sports or pack predators hunting): a team calling an audible play while on the attack, or the team that is so well knit that it can accomplish the same without yelling it out loud? >Wolves don't do anything like that. Wolves will both silently stalk and drive/funnel prey to a waiting ambush. And they do vocally call for others to rejoin them when out of sight. I'm not sure what better analog you might expect, given that wolves aren't pursuing above surface prey from underwater. But would you discredit orcas for not climbing out of the water and chasing seals on the ice?
Retric 5y ago
There is a lot of learned behavior in wolf hunting. Juvenile wolves go on hunts without direct participation to observe many times before participating. There is even specialization where faster members of a pack take on different roles. The real difference is large wolf pray doesn’t escape the way seals can onto land but are significantly more dangerous to the wolves. Such prey can both out run them in most cases or severely injury them in direct confrontations, so wolves need to use deep snow, river banks, or extreme exhaustion methods. It’s actually more complex hunting behavior than Orcas vs whales, though adapted to different environments. In terms of communication Alphas don’t seem to micromanage hunts the way Orcas do, but they will call them off etc. Which might relate to land being a more variable environment, you don’t run into random ditches in the open ocean.
jrgoff 5y ago
With respect to the passing down of learned knowledge, I believe I read in the book 'Three Among the Wolves' that the author had observed a wolf pack teaching their young to be aware of and hide from small planes flying over (planes were dangerous to the wolves because hunters used them to hunt wolves in that area).

by bmitc 5y ago

beerandt 5y ago

Wolves manage to cooperate fine, communicating with both howls and non-verbal cues. What's more impressive (be it humans playing sports or pack predators hunting): a team calling an audible play while on the attack, or the team that is so well knit that it can accomplish the same without yelling it out loud? >Wolves don't do anything like that. Wolves will both silently stalk and drive/funnel prey to a waiting ambush. And they do vocally call for others to rejoin them when out of sight. I'm not sure what better analog you might expect, given that wolves aren't pursuing above surface prey from underwater. But would you discredit orcas for not climbing out of the water and chasing seals on the ice?

Retric 5y ago

There is a lot of learned behavior in wolf hunting. Juvenile wolves go on hunts without direct participation to observe many times before participating. There is even specialization where faster members of a pack take on different roles. The real difference is large wolf pray doesn’t escape the way seals can onto land but are significantly more dangerous to the wolves. Such prey can both out run them in most cases or severely injury them in direct confrontations, so wolves need to use deep snow, river banks, or extreme exhaustion methods. It’s actually more complex hunting behavior than Orcas vs whales, though adapted to different environments. In terms of communication Alphas don’t seem to micromanage hunts the way Orcas do, but they will call them off etc. Which might relate to land being a more variable environment, you don’t run into random ditches in the open ocean.

jrgoff 5y ago

With respect to the passing down of learned knowledge, I believe I read in the book 'Three Among the Wolves' that the author had observed a wolf pack teaching their young to be aware of and hide from small planes flying over (planes were dangerous to the wolves because hunters used them to hunt wolves in that area).