7 ms·

By "natural immunity" they mean getting COVID and subjecting people to an inordinate risk of permanent disability or death. They are really saying that the best

By "natural immunity" they mean getting COVID and subjecting people to an inordinate risk of permanent disability or death. They are really saying that the best way to not get COVID is to get COVID? I feel like so many people are taking crazy pills.

josephcsible 5y ago
The best way to not get COVID when you're at high risk of death from it is to have already gotten it while you were at low risk of death from it.
- nojokes 5y ago
  Like in the childhood, right? It is very likely how it works with other disease that is constantly surrounding us and how we can tolerate many previously deadly epidemic pathogens. Still the research has displayed that almost any viral infection has undesirable outcomes in the long run so it would make sense to try to avoid as many as possible.
  - josephcsible 5y ago
    The key word being "possible". So far, everything we've tried to protect people from COVID has only delayed the inevitable. Even New Zealand, everyone's favorite example of how to handle it, appears to have lost this battle back in August. Do you foresee something coming that will let people avoid COVID forever?
    - moistly 5y ago
      But it has far more than “delayed the inevitable.” The things we’ve tried to protect people have (a) enabled us to stave off a lot of infections until this latest less-lethal variant evolved, and (b) helped reduce hospital loads. Things would be orders of magnitude worse had we not tried to protect people.
      - josephcsible 5y ago
        Accepting those points for the sake of argument, now that the less-lethal variant is here, why haven't we stopped doing those things yet?
        moistly 5y ago
        I don’t like to think people are stupid, so I’m going to believe you are being disingenuous and already know the answer. Nonetheless I’ll spell it out: at a quarter of the the hospitalization rate but 4x the rate of spread, omicron overloads the healthcare system just as much as delta. The math is so very simple and obvious that it’s embarrassing. In the USA omicron deaths are now outpacing delta’s. That is why we haven’t stopped doing things to slow its spread. https://www.wsj.com/articles/omicron-deaths-in-u-s-exceed-deltas-peak-as-covid-19-optimism-rises-in-europe-11643201653 https://www.wsj.com/articles/omicron-deaths-in-u-s-exceed-de... I see in your post history that you like to downplay the pandemic and the healthcare crisis it has caused. Why are you like this? What do you gain by it?
    - mike00632 5y ago
      > So far, everything we've tried to protect people from COVID has only delayed the inevitable... You mean except for the vaccines...
      - josephcsible 5y ago
        No, I very specifically mean including the vaccines. Breakthrough COVID exists and isn't at all uncommon. (Remember, if this weren't the case, then there'd be no reason for vaccinated people to have to wear masks anymore.)
        mike00632 5y ago
        >Breakthrough COVID exists and isn't at all uncommon. The difference between a "breakthrough COVID" case in a vaccinated person and a COVID infection in an unvaccinated person is a complete elimination in the risk of death and greatly reduced chances of severe illness and long-term disability. It's VERY preferable to be vaccinated.
        josephcsible 5y ago
        > a complete elimination in the risk of death It sounds like you're saying that nobody has ever died from COVID after being fully vaccinated against it, which isn't true.
- mike00632 5y ago
  No. The best way to not get COVID is to get vaccinated.
grujicd 5y ago
This kind of sentiment gets repeated a lot. Why do you say this? You really think that significant number of people is deliberately self infecting? I don't know anyone who did it on purpose, and majority of my social circle got the covid at one point without trying to catch it. Some before vaccine was available, some after getting their shots. Even if 1% of population is stupid enough to do it deliberately, and I very much doubt it's that high number, it still leaves 99% of people who did not catch it on purpose. Disregarding their immunity is not scientific at all. And focusing on miniscule Darwin-award population is not very emphatical to 99% who are not like that. Why do focus on Darwin-award subset like that's the most common case? And know what? If you didn't catch it so far, it's highly likely that you'll get Omicron pretty soon. Or one of future variants. If not in next months then in next years, as we get back to normal and covid variants keep circulating as endemic virus. How would you feel if you just recovered from the latest strain, you're full of antibodies, but it's not recognized at all by government and you have to take a booster shot made for last year's variant in order to get back to work? Does that make sense? It looks pretty much insane to me, but I live in Europe where previous infection is more or less equalized with vaccine. I'm baffled it's not like that in the US.
nojokes 5y ago
If you had followed Marty Makary, you may have noticed that he clearly is propagating anti-vaccination talking points.

josephcsible 5y ago

The best way to not get COVID when you're at high risk of death from it is to have already gotten it while you were at low risk of death from it.

nojokes 5y ago
Like in the childhood, right? It is very likely how it works with other disease that is constantly surrounding us and how we can tolerate many previously deadly epidemic pathogens. Still the research has displayed that almost any viral infection has undesirable outcomes in the long run so it would make sense to try to avoid as many as possible.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  The key word being "possible". So far, everything we've tried to protect people from COVID has only delayed the inevitable. Even New Zealand, everyone's favorite example of how to handle it, appears to have lost this battle back in August. Do you foresee something coming that will let people avoid COVID forever?
  - moistly 5y ago
    But it has far more than “delayed the inevitable.” The things we’ve tried to protect people have (a) enabled us to stave off a lot of infections until this latest less-lethal variant evolved, and (b) helped reduce hospital loads. Things would be orders of magnitude worse had we not tried to protect people.
    - josephcsible 5y ago
      Accepting those points for the sake of argument, now that the less-lethal variant is here, why haven't we stopped doing those things yet?
      - moistly 5y ago
        I don’t like to think people are stupid, so I’m going to believe you are being disingenuous and already know the answer. Nonetheless I’ll spell it out: at a quarter of the the hospitalization rate but 4x the rate of spread, omicron overloads the healthcare system just as much as delta. The math is so very simple and obvious that it’s embarrassing. In the USA omicron deaths are now outpacing delta’s. That is why we haven’t stopped doing things to slow its spread. https://www.wsj.com/articles/omicron-deaths-in-u-s-exceed-deltas-peak-as-covid-19-optimism-rises-in-europe-11643201653 https://www.wsj.com/articles/omicron-deaths-in-u-s-exceed-de... I see in your post history that you like to downplay the pandemic and the healthcare crisis it has caused. Why are you like this? What do you gain by it?
  - mike00632 5y ago
    > So far, everything we've tried to protect people from COVID has only delayed the inevitable... You mean except for the vaccines...
    - josephcsible 5y ago
      No, I very specifically mean including the vaccines. Breakthrough COVID exists and isn't at all uncommon. (Remember, if this weren't the case, then there'd be no reason for vaccinated people to have to wear masks anymore.)
      - mike00632 5y ago
        >Breakthrough COVID exists and isn't at all uncommon. The difference between a "breakthrough COVID" case in a vaccinated person and a COVID infection in an unvaccinated person is a complete elimination in the risk of death and greatly reduced chances of severe illness and long-term disability. It's VERY preferable to be vaccinated.
        josephcsible 5y ago
        > a complete elimination in the risk of death It sounds like you're saying that nobody has ever died from COVID after being fully vaccinated against it, which isn't true.
mike00632 5y ago
No. The best way to not get COVID is to get vaccinated.

grujicd 5y ago

This kind of sentiment gets repeated a lot. Why do you say this? You really think that significant number of people is deliberately self infecting? I don't know anyone who did it on purpose, and majority of my social circle got the covid at one point without trying to catch it. Some before vaccine was available, some after getting their shots. Even if 1% of population is stupid enough to do it deliberately, and I very much doubt it's that high number, it still leaves 99% of people who did not catch it on purpose. Disregarding their immunity is not scientific at all. And focusing on miniscule Darwin-award population is not very emphatical to 99% who are not like that. Why do focus on Darwin-award subset like that's the most common case? And know what? If you didn't catch it so far, it's highly likely that you'll get Omicron pretty soon. Or one of future variants. If not in next months then in next years, as we get back to normal and covid variants keep circulating as endemic virus. How would you feel if you just recovered from the latest strain, you're full of antibodies, but it's not recognized at all by government and you have to take a booster shot made for last year's variant in order to get back to work? Does that make sense? It looks pretty much insane to me, but I live in Europe where previous infection is more or less equalized with vaccine. I'm baffled it's not like that in the US.

nojokes 5y ago

If you had followed Marty Makary, you may have noticed that he clearly is propagating anti-vaccination talking points.