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> make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts Well, they've already violated this by accepting USD, but that doesn't necessarily mean

> make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts Well, they've already violated this by accepting USD, but that doesn't necessarily mean they can just do BTC too. To strike this down the courts would need a lawsuit, though, and I'm not sure who could claim damages. > coin money I take this to mean issuing a currency, which they are not doing here since they don't control BTC.

bdonlan 5y ago
The federal government is what makes USD legal tender, and this clause does not restrict the federal government. Standing would presumably be with the party which refused bitcoin payment in satisfaction of a debt.
- posterboy 5y ago
  This only means it would be pegged to the gold standard set by the FED, I reckon. Edit: I'm serious. I'm not saying that's a realistic option.
  - NovemberWhiskey 5y ago
    If you want to be serious; please provide a serious basis for your commentary rather than just making things up. For example: there is no gold standard set by the Federal Reserve, nor any conceptual relevance of gold to the value of the dollar, since the 1970s.
    - posterboy 5y ago
      Then the entire clause would be meaningless. I should have said pegged to the US$, but I thought that was obviously implied.
NovemberWhiskey 5y ago
>Well, they've already violated this by accepting USD ... no, the US dollar is a Federal construction, created by Congress. Congress is not bound by Article I, Section 10, Clause 1 - only the states.
- MadcapJake 5y ago
  Still though, the Dollar isn't listed there as a tender that the state can utilize. I don't think "make legal tender" means "create" but rather "accept as".
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    > Still though, the Dollar isn't listed there as a tender that the state can utilize. That clause does not forbid the Federal government from making other things legal tender, only the states. The Federal government made paper dollars legal tender via the Legal Tender Act of 1862. (They could make blueberries legal tender, if they wanted, but Arizona cannot.) > I don't think "make legal tender" means "create" but rather "accept as". No. To make it legal tender means requiring acceptance of that item as payment for a monetary debt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender). It would impact everyone in Arizona, not just the state government.
    - posterboy 5y ago
      > No. To make it legal tender means requiring acceptance of that item as payment for a monetary debt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender). It would impact everyone in Arizona, not just the state government. Yeah, that's what they said. Everyone in Arizona is Arizona. It's called metonymy.
      - ceejayoz 5y ago
        Arizona, the state, may choose to accept Bitcoin, for things like fines, state taxes, etc. Arizona, the state, may not choose to require Arizonans to accept Bitcoin as legal tender. That power is reserved for the Federal government. The bill attempts the latter, and is flatly unconstitutional.
        posterboy 5y ago
        Another comment argued with sources that this is not entailed, because businesses can choose to decline electronic cash already. I have heared that Disneyland is crazy like that and EC is virtually ubiquitious, but that's not the norm. Conversely, you don't expect to pay with a 500 everywhere (if you have that, EU phased it out recently)
corpdronejuly 5y ago
I'm curious now... could a state just stop accepting USD and demand gold and silver.
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  Maybe if they didn't want to get paid. (And that could actually happen. Say the state decides that they don't want to do X, but state or federal law says they have to. Well, fine, but there's a fee for X. The state just requires that you have to pay it in gold or silver.)
- posterboy 5y ago
  I'm curious now, could a state just stop being reasonable?
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    Sure. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1861_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1861_in_the_United_States
  - corpdronejuly 5y ago
    Have you seen the news in Florida... on most days?
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  No, because Federal law says they have to accept USD. The Federal government has (and has exercised) the power to expand the definition of legal tender. The states do not.
deleted 5y ago
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bdonlan 5y ago

The federal government is what makes USD legal tender, and this clause does not restrict the federal government. Standing would presumably be with the party which refused bitcoin payment in satisfaction of a debt.

posterboy 5y ago
This only means it would be pegged to the gold standard set by the FED, I reckon. Edit: I'm serious. I'm not saying that's a realistic option.
- NovemberWhiskey 5y ago
  If you want to be serious; please provide a serious basis for your commentary rather than just making things up. For example: there is no gold standard set by the Federal Reserve, nor any conceptual relevance of gold to the value of the dollar, since the 1970s.
  - posterboy 5y ago
    Then the entire clause would be meaningless. I should have said pegged to the US$, but I thought that was obviously implied.

NovemberWhiskey 5y ago

>Well, they've already violated this by accepting USD ... no, the US dollar is a Federal construction, created by Congress. Congress is not bound by Article I, Section 10, Clause 1 - only the states.

MadcapJake 5y ago
Still though, the Dollar isn't listed there as a tender that the state can utilize. I don't think "make legal tender" means "create" but rather "accept as".
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  > Still though, the Dollar isn't listed there as a tender that the state can utilize. That clause does not forbid the Federal government from making other things legal tender, only the states. The Federal government made paper dollars legal tender via the Legal Tender Act of 1862. (They could make blueberries legal tender, if they wanted, but Arizona cannot.) > I don't think "make legal tender" means "create" but rather "accept as". No. To make it legal tender means requiring acceptance of that item as payment for a monetary debt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender). It would impact everyone in Arizona, not just the state government.
  - posterboy 5y ago
    > No. To make it legal tender means requiring acceptance of that item as payment for a monetary debt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender). It would impact everyone in Arizona, not just the state government. Yeah, that's what they said. Everyone in Arizona is Arizona. It's called metonymy.
    - ceejayoz 5y ago
      Arizona, the state, may choose to accept Bitcoin, for things like fines, state taxes, etc. Arizona, the state, may not choose to require Arizonans to accept Bitcoin as legal tender. That power is reserved for the Federal government. The bill attempts the latter, and is flatly unconstitutional.
      - posterboy 5y ago
        Another comment argued with sources that this is not entailed, because businesses can choose to decline electronic cash already. I have heared that Disneyland is crazy like that and EC is virtually ubiquitious, but that's not the norm. Conversely, you don't expect to pay with a 500 everywhere (if you have that, EU phased it out recently)

corpdronejuly 5y ago

I'm curious now... could a state just stop accepting USD and demand gold and silver.

AnimalMuppet 5y ago
Maybe if they didn't want to get paid. (And that could actually happen. Say the state decides that they don't want to do X, but state or federal law says they have to. Well, fine, but there's a fee for X. The state just requires that you have to pay it in gold or silver.)
posterboy 5y ago
I'm curious now, could a state just stop being reasonable?
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  Sure. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1861_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1861_in_the_United_States
- corpdronejuly 5y ago
  Have you seen the news in Florida... on most days?
ceejayoz 5y ago
No, because Federal law says they have to accept USD. The Federal government has (and has exercised) the power to expand the definition of legal tender. The states do not.

deleted 5y ago

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