3 ms·

The bus was over bridge weight. Before you go trying to fix the bridges, take the time to figure out what the problem was.

brewdad 5y ago
Citation needed. Are you saying the bus driver deviated from the usual route? Did the driver allow more passengers to board than is normally allowed? Perhaps a passenger boarded with their collection of lead figurines. I don't see how the bus could have been overweight without someone knowing the risks. It's not an Uber, they know where that bus will be traveling every time it leaves the station.
- steveklabnik 5y ago
  Hard agree that this is "citation needed." It is the normal route for that bus: https://www.portauthority.org/pdfs/112016/61B.pdf https://www.portauthority.org/pdfs/112016/61B.pdf (you can check the map at the bottom) They run pretty often.
  - neuronexmachina 5y ago
    Oh wow, it was the 61B? I used to ride that bus route all the time (and 61A/61C) when I was in undergrad.
    - steveklabnik 5y ago
      yep https://storage.googleapis.com/afs-prod/media/7e467cc904ea471088b91c6d11e6f3a7/1000.jpeg https://storage.googleapis.com/afs-prod/media/7e467cc904ea47... (from the AP story: https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-business-pittsburgh-bridge-collapses-b91476e4d1dc1c7839bd0c39e7be186e https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-business-pittsburgh-bri...)
- bombcar 5y ago
  I mean in a sense it's clear, there's a collapsed bridge with a bus on it ... https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1986/11/26 https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1986/11/26 But if it was actually over the posted weight limit, that'll come out shortly.
- JohnHaugeland 5y ago
  > Are you saying the bus driver deviated from the usual route? I didn't say anything like that, no, nor any of the other invented things you tried to add to my actual statement. . > Perhaps a passenger boarded with their collection of lead figurines. Pew says the average American weighs 181 pounds. I'm not sure why you think you need lead figurines. Two tons, 181 pounds at a time, is only 22 people. PATransit busses are rated for 42 people plus two wheelchair bound people. This bus is over weight at half load. Please be less sarcastic. Thanks. . > It's not an Uber, they know where that bus will be traveling every time it leaves the station. Yes, that's why I blame them. . > Citation needed. Feel free to look it up.
  - saalweachter 5y ago
    > ... the 447-foot-long span is rated in poor condition and is restricted to vehicles of up to 26 tons ... The weight limit was 26 tons, not 2 tons. My Chevy Volt would frequently brush up against a 2 ton weight limit.
    - JohnHaugeland 5y ago
      > The weight limit was 26 tons, not 2 tons. 85% of PATransit busses are from the 1996 acquisition (Cummins ISL, ISB, IS9; Voith 864; Allison D) those busses weigh either 24 or 25 tons. Their other busses (except the 28x airport flyer) are heavier. Other than the flyers, SEPTA's lightest bus is 24 tons. Some of them, like the XE40 or the X12, are significantly heavier. About 1/5 of PATransit's fleet is over-weight for this bridge without a single person on board. 26 tons is so little of a load that nobody should ever have been sending a bus over it. The 2 tons is for the human load, above and beyond the weight of the vehicle. The vehicle already accounts for 24 of the 26 tons, bare minimum by definition. If it was an XE40, it was two tons over load without even a driver. That is to say, "there's more weight here than just the human beings. You should also consider the bus itself." I did spell this out, but it was in a different comment tree. I thought I had here too. Sorry; I could have been clearer. Someone in a different thread pointed out that it was a three axle bus. I've been making this case based on two-axle busses being too heavy. PATransit's lightest three-axle bus is MAN SG 220 GAWR, just shy of 30 tons curb weight, which is nearly 4 tons over limit. Look, if you're from Pittsburgh, the last thing you want to do is stand up for PennDOT. But looking at the numbers, to me, this really looks like "too big bus," not "bridge go boom" Not all infrastructure failures are the fault of the infrastructure. Many, maybe even most, but not all. It's important to differentiate.

brewdad 5y ago

Citation needed. Are you saying the bus driver deviated from the usual route? Did the driver allow more passengers to board than is normally allowed? Perhaps a passenger boarded with their collection of lead figurines. I don't see how the bus could have been overweight without someone knowing the risks. It's not an Uber, they know where that bus will be traveling every time it leaves the station.

steveklabnik 5y ago
Hard agree that this is "citation needed." It is the normal route for that bus: https://www.portauthority.org/pdfs/112016/61B.pdf https://www.portauthority.org/pdfs/112016/61B.pdf (you can check the map at the bottom) They run pretty often.
- neuronexmachina 5y ago
  Oh wow, it was the 61B? I used to ride that bus route all the time (and 61A/61C) when I was in undergrad.
  - steveklabnik 5y ago
    yep https://storage.googleapis.com/afs-prod/media/7e467cc904ea471088b91c6d11e6f3a7/1000.jpeg https://storage.googleapis.com/afs-prod/media/7e467cc904ea47... (from the AP story: https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-business-pittsburgh-bridge-collapses-b91476e4d1dc1c7839bd0c39e7be186e https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-business-pittsburgh-bri...)
bombcar 5y ago
I mean in a sense it's clear, there's a collapsed bridge with a bus on it ... https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1986/11/26 https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1986/11/26 But if it was actually over the posted weight limit, that'll come out shortly.
JohnHaugeland 5y ago
> Are you saying the bus driver deviated from the usual route? I didn't say anything like that, no, nor any of the other invented things you tried to add to my actual statement. . > Perhaps a passenger boarded with their collection of lead figurines. Pew says the average American weighs 181 pounds. I'm not sure why you think you need lead figurines. Two tons, 181 pounds at a time, is only 22 people. PATransit busses are rated for 42 people plus two wheelchair bound people. This bus is over weight at half load. Please be less sarcastic. Thanks. . > It's not an Uber, they know where that bus will be traveling every time it leaves the station. Yes, that's why I blame them. . > Citation needed. Feel free to look it up.
- saalweachter 5y ago
  > ... the 447-foot-long span is rated in poor condition and is restricted to vehicles of up to 26 tons ... The weight limit was 26 tons, not 2 tons. My Chevy Volt would frequently brush up against a 2 ton weight limit.
  - JohnHaugeland 5y ago
    > The weight limit was 26 tons, not 2 tons. 85% of PATransit busses are from the 1996 acquisition (Cummins ISL, ISB, IS9; Voith 864; Allison D) those busses weigh either 24 or 25 tons. Their other busses (except the 28x airport flyer) are heavier. Other than the flyers, SEPTA's lightest bus is 24 tons. Some of them, like the XE40 or the X12, are significantly heavier. About 1/5 of PATransit's fleet is over-weight for this bridge without a single person on board. 26 tons is so little of a load that nobody should ever have been sending a bus over it. The 2 tons is for the human load, above and beyond the weight of the vehicle. The vehicle already accounts for 24 of the 26 tons, bare minimum by definition. If it was an XE40, it was two tons over load without even a driver. That is to say, "there's more weight here than just the human beings. You should also consider the bus itself." I did spell this out, but it was in a different comment tree. I thought I had here too. Sorry; I could have been clearer. Someone in a different thread pointed out that it was a three axle bus. I've been making this case based on two-axle busses being too heavy. PATransit's lightest three-axle bus is MAN SG 220 GAWR, just shy of 30 tons curb weight, which is nearly 4 tons over limit. Look, if you're from Pittsburgh, the last thing you want to do is stand up for PennDOT. But looking at the numbers, to me, this really looks like "too big bus," not "bridge go boom" Not all infrastructure failures are the fault of the infrastructure. Many, maybe even most, but not all. It's important to differentiate.