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Sorry, from my perspective he's talking utter shite. I knew people in northern Ireland who rioted. They were young angry stupid men who didn't give a fuck who's

Sorry, from my perspective he's talking utter shite. I knew people in northern Ireland who rioted. They were young angry stupid men who didn't give a fuck who's lives they were making a misery. It was a form of collective punishment on people whose only crime was having a business or a car that idiots enjoyed smashing up

titzer 5y ago
> people in northern Ireland who rioted Yeah, these are not equivalent scenarios.
- bennysomething 5y ago
  A divided population , a minority that sees itself as a victim of oppression, rioting and other violence. Yes, the people doing the rioting don't have similar excuses at all. Edit infact in school I was taught Catholic civil right protestors drew inspiration from the black civil rights movement
  - nextaccountic 5y ago
    > Edit infact in school I was taught Catholic civil right protestors drew inspiration from the black civil rights movement Indeed, https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/dr-king-s-impact-fight-civil-rights-northern-ireland-n495701 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/dr-king-s-impact-fight-c...
dwater 5y ago
That sounds exactly like what MLK was describing: "Often the Negro does not even want what he takes; he wants the experience of taking. But most of all, alienated from society and knowing that this society cherishes property above people, he is shocking it by abusing property rights." It's about shocking society more than it is about the property and who it belongs to.
- Simon_O_Rourke 5y ago
  Amm, not in northern Ireland like the commenter says. That wasn't people out to just shock anyone. Same repression by the state, but differently aims.
- jl6 5y ago
  When you say “it’s about”, it’s like you’re assuming rioters need to have a rational explanation for what they do. It could very well just be the unleashing of some inner raw-animal destructiveness for no reason other than the opportunity presented itself. Post-hoc rationalizations need not have any connection to the rioters themselves.
kingraoul3 5y ago
- bennysomething 5y ago
  Erm, surely this applies to MLK too.
sandworm101 5y ago
>> a form of collective punishment on people whose only crime was having a business or a car that idiots enjoyed smashing up So people without property were punishing people who had property? Sounds very standard to me. Extend that a bit further and you get something like the French revolution where poor people executed rich people for the crime of simply being rich.
- posterboy 5y ago
  If being rich were simply simple, wouldn't everyone have been rich?
- sdenton4 5y ago
  Correction: the crime of being rich while many starved. I'm currently reading 'The Dawn of Everything,' and it is FASCINATING. The case made at the beginning of the book is that notions of equality and individual freedom basically came into being in Europe because of contact with indigenous Americans. Suddenly there was a flood of observations and conversations with societies that made sure no one went hungry. And then when people started starving with the knowledge that another world was possible, things got violent. Incidentally, many-to-most violent uprisings have started with food shortages. Typically people have to be extremely uncomfortable before they start breaking out the guillotines, and hunger is extremely uncomfortable... And one of the still-active remnants of the French revolution is a government regulation ensuring that baguettes are cheap and readily available.
  - sandworm101 5y ago
    The recent violence in kazakhstan came after the possible rise in gas and electricity prices (which in turn is tied to crypo mining). The Terror started with food shortages but I think the next violent revolution will be triggered by energy prices, be it gas or electricity. As for breaking out the guillotines, that doesn't take much. A gallows made an appearance on January 6th. Those people looked very well-fed. I'm not sure they were joking.
  - leereeves 5y ago
    > The case made at the beginning of the book is that notions of equality and individual freedom basically came into being in Europe because of contact with indigenous Americans. The biggest problem with that theory is that indigenous Americans generally did not hold notions of equality and individual freedom. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_among_the_indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas#Pre-Columbian_era https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_among_the_indigenous_p... 2: https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/military-history/history-heritage/popular-books/aboriginal-people-canadian-military/warfare-pre-columbian-north-america.html https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/service... 3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquois#War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquois#War
lamontcg 5y ago
> It was a form of collective punishment Yes, and those people aren't allowed to do that, only approved governments.
weeblewobble 5y ago
are you really sorry?

titzer 5y ago

> people in northern Ireland who rioted Yeah, these are not equivalent scenarios.

bennysomething 5y ago
A divided population , a minority that sees itself as a victim of oppression, rioting and other violence. Yes, the people doing the rioting don't have similar excuses at all. Edit infact in school I was taught Catholic civil right protestors drew inspiration from the black civil rights movement
- nextaccountic 5y ago
  > Edit infact in school I was taught Catholic civil right protestors drew inspiration from the black civil rights movement Indeed, https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/dr-king-s-impact-fight-civil-rights-northern-ireland-n495701 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/dr-king-s-impact-fight-c...

dwater 5y ago

That sounds exactly like what MLK was describing: "Often the Negro does not even want what he takes; he wants the experience of taking. But most of all, alienated from society and knowing that this society cherishes property above people, he is shocking it by abusing property rights." It's about shocking society more than it is about the property and who it belongs to.

Simon_O_Rourke 5y ago
Amm, not in northern Ireland like the commenter says. That wasn't people out to just shock anyone. Same repression by the state, but differently aims.
jl6 5y ago
When you say “it’s about”, it’s like you’re assuming rioters need to have a rational explanation for what they do. It could very well just be the unleashing of some inner raw-animal destructiveness for no reason other than the opportunity presented itself. Post-hoc rationalizations need not have any connection to the rioters themselves.

kingraoul3 5y ago

bennysomething 5y ago
Erm, surely this applies to MLK too.

sandworm101 5y ago

>> a form of collective punishment on people whose only crime was having a business or a car that idiots enjoyed smashing up So people without property were punishing people who had property? Sounds very standard to me. Extend that a bit further and you get something like the French revolution where poor people executed rich people for the crime of simply being rich.

posterboy 5y ago
If being rich were simply simple, wouldn't everyone have been rich?
sdenton4 5y ago
Correction: the crime of being rich while many starved. I'm currently reading 'The Dawn of Everything,' and it is FASCINATING. The case made at the beginning of the book is that notions of equality and individual freedom basically came into being in Europe because of contact with indigenous Americans. Suddenly there was a flood of observations and conversations with societies that made sure no one went hungry. And then when people started starving with the knowledge that another world was possible, things got violent. Incidentally, many-to-most violent uprisings have started with food shortages. Typically people have to be extremely uncomfortable before they start breaking out the guillotines, and hunger is extremely uncomfortable... And one of the still-active remnants of the French revolution is a government regulation ensuring that baguettes are cheap and readily available.
- sandworm101 5y ago
  The recent violence in kazakhstan came after the possible rise in gas and electricity prices (which in turn is tied to crypo mining). The Terror started with food shortages but I think the next violent revolution will be triggered by energy prices, be it gas or electricity. As for breaking out the guillotines, that doesn't take much. A gallows made an appearance on January 6th. Those people looked very well-fed. I'm not sure they were joking.
- leereeves 5y ago
  > The case made at the beginning of the book is that notions of equality and individual freedom basically came into being in Europe because of contact with indigenous Americans. The biggest problem with that theory is that indigenous Americans generally did not hold notions of equality and individual freedom. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_among_the_indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas#Pre-Columbian_era https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_among_the_indigenous_p... 2: https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/military-history/history-heritage/popular-books/aboriginal-people-canadian-military/warfare-pre-columbian-north-america.html https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/service... 3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquois#War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquois#War

lamontcg 5y ago

> It was a form of collective punishment Yes, and those people aren't allowed to do that, only approved governments.

weeblewobble 5y ago

are you really sorry?