4 ms·
Why this isn't fun: - Each cell can only take one of two values, therefore any guess is sufficient to gather enough information to select the right answer on t
by probablypower 5y ago
Why this isn't fun:
- Each cell can only take one of two values, therefore any guess is sufficient to gather enough information to select the right answer on the second try (as long as you understand binary).
- The act us converting base2 <-> base10 is trivial for computers, but laborious for humans. The majority of time on this game is spent doing this mental labour (or using a converter in a separate app).
- The optimal strategy is immediately apparent, so there is no reason to play more than one round. It is solved.
How Wordle compares:
- Each cell takes one of 26 values, but one can only guess 6 times, so brute force information gathering is not a vaiable strategy, per cell. However, one can potentially eliminate 5 values per round, so one can at least brute force 25 different letters with a round to spare (plus some additional hints on their positioning). The probability distribution of each of these letters varies over each space, and is conditional on what is occupied in other spaces. For example, 'C' is a middling letter, but if you have an 'H' in position 2 or a 'K' in position 5 the letter 'C' shoots up the charts. Same for a 'G' in position 5 affecting the probability of an 'N' in position 4.
- The game's domain knowledge is not base conversions, but rather the English language.This requires recall, mental filtering, and shuffling hinted letters around, which are cognitively simple but also hard enough to be rewarding. I think the dependence upon the user's vocabulary adds some uncertainty that is exciting.
- The optimal strategy is not immediately apparent. It has been solved by bots but manual strategies vary greatly and there is room for inspiration/innovation. What opening word do I use? Do I prioritise trimming values from the alphabet, or determining the location of hinted letters? Should I check for letters occurring more than once?
How the Bytle game could be adjusted to be more entertaining:
- Potential values per cell need to increase. For example, hexadecimal instead of binary.
- Avoid loading the user with the cognitive challenge of converting bases. If you show values in hexadecimal, let the user write in hexadecimal.
- The domain space needs to change. A uniform distribution where each square is uncorrelated with others is not fun. Maybe add a hint like: "is divisible by 7" to add some intrigue and dependencies between the spaces.
- James-Livesey 5y agoThanks for your analysis of both Wordle and Bytle — when my friends and I came up with this game, we didn't expect the game to be in any form challenging compared to games that are similar in nature to it. It was mainly just a joke considering that it is trivial to find the value of a cell when there are only two states. The base-10 entry is designed to make it some way a bit more challanging than entering base-2, but of course isn't how Wordle and its clones normally work. Your feedback is certainly valuable though — mayble Hexle could be a thing! I'm happy to give that idea away to anyone who's looking for the challange of implementing it. And as you say with modifying the domain space, adding some sort of requirement for the entered number would be a good addition, too.
- intuitionist 5y agoFWIW, I got the joke and thought it was good for a chuckle. But it would probably be more obvious/maybe a better joke if players had to input the numbers in binary.
- James-Livesey 5y agoThought I'd inform you that (in a rush), I was motivated by your comment to make a more fun iteration of Bytle: https://jamesl.me/hexle/ https://jamesl.me/hexle/ Discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30118898 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30118898