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>The whole point of a democratic system is to redress grievances. God, this is the entire point of decades of research, but, what do you do when the system eit

>The whole point of a democratic system is to redress grievances. God, this is the entire point of decades of research, but, what do you do when the system either will not work for you, or is actively structured to ensure that it cannot work for you? What then?

echopurity 5y ago
krapp 5y ago
Perhaps the point is that, once you get out the nooses and guillotines and start lining partisans up against the wall, you're no longer participating in a legitimate, democratic process. In the oft-quoted "Tree of liberty" letter written by Thomas Jefferson regarding Shay's Rebellion[0], he condemned the actual violence as being born in ignorance and considered it the result of the failure of government to properly "set them right to facts, pardon and pacify them" - even as he praised the spirit which led to it. Revolution against tyranny is, itself, an act of tyranny (often of a population against itself) and while the ends may be considered justifiable (and always are by the revolutionaries) the means often are not. [0]https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/jefferson/105.html https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/jefferson/105.html
indigochill 5y ago
> what do you do when the system either will not work for you, or is actively structured to ensure that it cannot work for you? Purely anecdotally, I emigrated from the US specifically because the US's labor laws were blocking a potential opportunity for me. I admittedly was in a position where I could move so this was more a "opportunity to better opportunity" rather than "no opportunity to... wait, I don't have the opportunity to go anywhere" situation, but this experience made me very pro-immigration/emigration. If the laws of one place are unsuitable and the system is structured in such a way as to make changing that infeasible, then people should be as free as possible to go where they are more suitable or where change is more feasible.

echopurity 5y ago

krapp 5y ago

Perhaps the point is that, once you get out the nooses and guillotines and start lining partisans up against the wall, you're no longer participating in a legitimate, democratic process. In the oft-quoted "Tree of liberty" letter written by Thomas Jefferson regarding Shay's Rebellion[0], he condemned the actual violence as being born in ignorance and considered it the result of the failure of government to properly "set them right to facts, pardon and pacify them" - even as he praised the spirit which led to it. Revolution against tyranny is, itself, an act of tyranny (often of a population against itself) and while the ends may be considered justifiable (and always are by the revolutionaries) the means often are not. [0]https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/jefferson/105.html https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/jefferson/105.html

indigochill 5y ago

> what do you do when the system either will not work for you, or is actively structured to ensure that it cannot work for you? Purely anecdotally, I emigrated from the US specifically because the US's labor laws were blocking a potential opportunity for me. I admittedly was in a position where I could move so this was more a "opportunity to better opportunity" rather than "no opportunity to... wait, I don't have the opportunity to go anywhere" situation, but this experience made me very pro-immigration/emigration. If the laws of one place are unsuitable and the system is structured in such a way as to make changing that infeasible, then people should be as free as possible to go where they are more suitable or where change is more feasible.