4 ms·

Ask HN: My tattoo artist made comment about the Covid vaccine that confused me

7 points by neom 5y ago

I've been getting some of my sleeve expanded and I was in session yesterday, after a couple of hours I said it's crazy how little I'm bleeding on this one, and the tattoo artist said "yah, since the vaccine people don't bleed the same way anymore" and shrugged. I couldn't ask anything else about it because I got a pit in my stomach and waited till the end of the session and then dove in, the artist is young college age and has a group with other young tattoo artist, and they were laughing in it about how accurately they can nail how many doses people have had and when (including me) by how their skin and blood reacts to the tattoo. Am I right to feel a bit weird about this?

nameless912 5y ago
This has been floating around in antivax circles for a while, that the vaccine somehow changes the coagulants or oxygenation of blood (depending on who and when you ask). There's absolutely zero evidence to show that the COVID vaccines do anything different to your blood than any other vaccine, which is to say, nothing at all.
- WaxedChewbacca 5y ago
- verdverm 5y ago
  The spike protein however is known to cause clots and other blood related issues. This applies to both the infected and vaccinated. Like excess deaths being elevated, there are a number of other rarer conditions that have above average statistics during the pandemic.
eganist 5y ago
Until it's studied (anecdotes inform experimental and observational studies that could clarify this), it's hard to say for certain. The problem is how much data is available from The Before Times™; it'll be hard to find people who are covid-negative, unvaccinated, and have any desire to get a tattoo soon after voluntarily becoming vaccinated, so I imagine an experimental study is largely out the window. It's easier to draw a parallel outcome that could speak to the above perception, though: I'll venture a bet that this is more a consequence of negative perception of the vaccine by the artists you interacted with; a drop in bleeding during tattooing would manifest in bloodwork as well, and I'd think such bloodwork would show differences in platelet counts, blood concentration, etc. compared to pre-covid samples. Not an expert; would love an expert opinion on this. But tl;dr: I wouldn't worry about it.
h2odragon 5y ago
You are right to feel a bit weird. Also: Women who have not been vaccinated have been having the same heavy and frequent menstruation issues as women who have been vaccinated. I do not know of studies citing this but I have witnessed it firsthand and been told its "been discussed". There is this: https://www.nichd.nih.gov/newsroom/news/083021-COVID-19-vaccination-menstruation https://www.nichd.nih.gov/newsroom/news/083021-COVID-19-vacc... from last August
riddleronroof 5y ago
Can he also tell if you took MMR vaccine as a kid? Or flu shot last year? The changes are in antibodies. And I doubt your tattoo artist can see them.
aayala 5y ago
Sounds like we need a new crazy episode of Joe Rogan
5ESS 5y ago
Even if it were proven that this was indeed true, the proof would certainly not be allowed to reach mainstream audiences. The author would be discredited, face character assassination (and sometimes physical assassination), and/or blacklisting from the scientific community. At the very least they would never be able to secure funding for future projects and their loved would start suffering from tragic “accidents”.
- aayala 5y ago
  You need Alex Jones in your life
themodelplumber 5y ago
Tl;Dr: I'd be really careful with artists and things they tell you they have seen. Art careers often require a constant, heavy moderation of the gap between subjective sensory perception and objective (commonly perceived or measured) sensory perception. At first the artist may have to force the gap to become fluid. But over time the gap naturally starts to seem very fluid by itself. The imagination fills in objectively-perceived gaps of missing information very easily, either in terms of imagery or in reasoning/logic. When I did some casual qualitative interviews with cultist-artists, they were the one group that wanted to believe in their belief systems based mostly on subjective sensory experiences. They were the largest "I've seen things you wouldn't believe" group. (With respect to the individuals involved; other groups had different perception preferences that would also moderate various issues)
- neom 5y ago
  This is really what I was asking, so thanks for posting it. I'm not an anti-vaxxer or anything like that, I believe in science etc, I was just pretty taken a back by what was said and i didn't have any outlet to explore it (so I hope dang will pardon me for posting something like this as I realize it's at a line).
jfengel 5y ago
Yeah, you're right to feel weird. Ironically, he probably can guess who's been vaccinated. So can I. The MAGA hat wearer: zero doses. The one with the stethoscope: triple jab. He attributes this to blood, because he doesn't know what study blinding is. Because he doesn't know anything about science, and yet is putting his judgment over that of people who do. You are putting your life in this man's hands. He is being forced to follow rules that are designed to protect you from dirty needles, dirty hands, and other causes of death. He is putting his own guesses above those of people who know what they're talking about, and you will never know if that applies to sanitary procedures and other protective measures. I would never allow such a person to touch me.
- ifyoubuildit 5y ago
  You know that this tattoo artist is college age and you have this little bit of context: > I said it's crazy how little I'm bleeding on this one, and the tattoo artist said "yah, since the vaccine people don't bleed the same way anymore" and shrugged How did you get from that to this: > He is putting his own guesses above those of people who know what they're talking about, and you will never know if that applies to sanitary procedures and other protective measures. I would never allow such a person to touch me. This feels like some sort of social equivalent of cytokine storm. This is a story about a person making small talk about something they saw in their work, seemingly without any judgment in any direction, and you appear to have written them off as a human.
  - jfengel 5y ago
    I'm saying he's wrong. People bleed differently. He has no idea how often his guesses are right, and even when they are, it's not due to the blood. He hasn't even considered how to take actual data. I know that because it would not have escaped the notice of so many scientists taking actual data. There is no chance of him being correct. So he's either stupid or lying. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt by saying he's stupid.
    - ifyoubuildit 5y ago
weare138 5y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_windshield_pitting_epidemic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_windshield_pitting_epi...

7 points by neom 5y ago

nameless912 5y ago

This has been floating around in antivax circles for a while, that the vaccine somehow changes the coagulants or oxygenation of blood (depending on who and when you ask). There's absolutely zero evidence to show that the COVID vaccines do anything different to your blood than any other vaccine, which is to say, nothing at all.

WaxedChewbacca 5y ago
verdverm 5y ago
The spike protein however is known to cause clots and other blood related issues. This applies to both the infected and vaccinated. Like excess deaths being elevated, there are a number of other rarer conditions that have above average statistics during the pandemic.

eganist 5y ago

Until it's studied (anecdotes inform experimental and observational studies that could clarify this), it's hard to say for certain. The problem is how much data is available from The Before Times™; it'll be hard to find people who are covid-negative, unvaccinated, and have any desire to get a tattoo soon after voluntarily becoming vaccinated, so I imagine an experimental study is largely out the window. It's easier to draw a parallel outcome that could speak to the above perception, though: I'll venture a bet that this is more a consequence of negative perception of the vaccine by the artists you interacted with; a drop in bleeding during tattooing would manifest in bloodwork as well, and I'd think such bloodwork would show differences in platelet counts, blood concentration, etc. compared to pre-covid samples. Not an expert; would love an expert opinion on this. But tl;dr: I wouldn't worry about it.

h2odragon 5y ago

You are right to feel a bit weird. Also: Women who have not been vaccinated have been having the same heavy and frequent menstruation issues as women who have been vaccinated. I do not know of studies citing this but I have witnessed it firsthand and been told its "been discussed". There is this: https://www.nichd.nih.gov/newsroom/news/083021-COVID-19-vaccination-menstruation https://www.nichd.nih.gov/newsroom/news/083021-COVID-19-vacc... from last August

riddleronroof 5y ago

Can he also tell if you took MMR vaccine as a kid? Or flu shot last year? The changes are in antibodies. And I doubt your tattoo artist can see them.

aayala 5y ago

Sounds like we need a new crazy episode of Joe Rogan

5ESS 5y ago

Even if it were proven that this was indeed true, the proof would certainly not be allowed to reach mainstream audiences. The author would be discredited, face character assassination (and sometimes physical assassination), and/or blacklisting from the scientific community. At the very least they would never be able to secure funding for future projects and their loved would start suffering from tragic “accidents”.

aayala 5y ago
You need Alex Jones in your life

themodelplumber 5y ago

Tl;Dr: I'd be really careful with artists and things they tell you they have seen. Art careers often require a constant, heavy moderation of the gap between subjective sensory perception and objective (commonly perceived or measured) sensory perception. At first the artist may have to force the gap to become fluid. But over time the gap naturally starts to seem very fluid by itself. The imagination fills in objectively-perceived gaps of missing information very easily, either in terms of imagery or in reasoning/logic. When I did some casual qualitative interviews with cultist-artists, they were the one group that wanted to believe in their belief systems based mostly on subjective sensory experiences. They were the largest "I've seen things you wouldn't believe" group. (With respect to the individuals involved; other groups had different perception preferences that would also moderate various issues)

neom 5y ago
This is really what I was asking, so thanks for posting it. I'm not an anti-vaxxer or anything like that, I believe in science etc, I was just pretty taken a back by what was said and i didn't have any outlet to explore it (so I hope dang will pardon me for posting something like this as I realize it's at a line).

jfengel 5y ago

Yeah, you're right to feel weird. Ironically, he probably can guess who's been vaccinated. So can I. The MAGA hat wearer: zero doses. The one with the stethoscope: triple jab. He attributes this to blood, because he doesn't know what study blinding is. Because he doesn't know anything about science, and yet is putting his judgment over that of people who do. You are putting your life in this man's hands. He is being forced to follow rules that are designed to protect you from dirty needles, dirty hands, and other causes of death. He is putting his own guesses above those of people who know what they're talking about, and you will never know if that applies to sanitary procedures and other protective measures. I would never allow such a person to touch me.

ifyoubuildit 5y ago
You know that this tattoo artist is college age and you have this little bit of context: > I said it's crazy how little I'm bleeding on this one, and the tattoo artist said "yah, since the vaccine people don't bleed the same way anymore" and shrugged How did you get from that to this: > He is putting his own guesses above those of people who know what they're talking about, and you will never know if that applies to sanitary procedures and other protective measures. I would never allow such a person to touch me. This feels like some sort of social equivalent of cytokine storm. This is a story about a person making small talk about something they saw in their work, seemingly without any judgment in any direction, and you appear to have written them off as a human.
- jfengel 5y ago
  I'm saying he's wrong. People bleed differently. He has no idea how often his guesses are right, and even when they are, it's not due to the blood. He hasn't even considered how to take actual data. I know that because it would not have escaped the notice of so many scientists taking actual data. There is no chance of him being correct. So he's either stupid or lying. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt by saying he's stupid.
  - ifyoubuildit 5y ago

weare138 5y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_windshield_pitting_epidemic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_windshield_pitting_epi...