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I think your technique of keeping the door ajar even just two or three seconds is a better idea than this convoluted Dutch reach. It gives any cyclist informati

I think your technique of keeping the door ajar even just two or three seconds is a better idea than this convoluted Dutch reach. It gives any cyclist information that a door is opening. But as I’ve said, if everyone just uses their mirrors it’s unnecessary because you will know there are no cyclists coming. Another point that is missed is why don’t cyclists ride in the middle of the street and/or slow down a bit. It is always astonishing to me how entitled and utterly recklessly cyclists ride around as if the supposed rights they have are some kind of divine protection. You’re the squishy human that has nothing protecting it, rider like it may kill your, because it can. And did anyone else notice not a single person was wearing a helmet in the video? I’m not one to force people to wear helmets, but there again is that weird entitlement of cyclists. So now people have to do some convoluted reach because cyclists race past car doors without a helmet on. Have you ever seen cyclists in Dutch cities, they are simply stupid risk takers.

hgomersall 5y ago
So what does the cyclist do with that warning? Given space they might stop, which is pretty discourteous by the person opening the door, but with insufficient time they might well swerve into a traffic to avoid the collision, which could be far worse.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  How is that any different than cars and turn signals? The obligation is on the party obstructing the traffic flow to not be a dick about it (which includes broadcasting their intentions to some extent) and the secondary obligation is on the moving traffic to not do ludicrous speed so that the former party can accurately predict whether or not they can make their move without being a dick about it.
  - hgomersall 5y ago
    If I were cycling past a car and the door began to open, I would (and do) respond on the assumption that that door is going to open all the way. You don't have to be moving fast for that to be problematic. Moreover, there are plenty of places you have continuous parked cars. If you slowed to a genuinely safe speed you may as well be walking.
- alamortsubite 5y ago
  A good safety protocol incorporates redundancies. The "warning" you're arguing against is secondary to first and foremost carefully checking for approaching cyclists. Both the parent and I were clear about this. (I'll add I'm horrified by everything else the parent wrote.) > Given space they might stop, which is pretty discourteous by the person opening the door Precisely the opposite is true: thoughtfully opening one's door slowly as a backup mechanism in an effort to prevent someone else's injury is very courteous. As a cyclist myself, I'd far prefer to be inconvenienced by an unscheduled stop than I would crash into a car door. > with insufficient time they might well swerve into a traffic to avoid the collision, which could be far worse. The alternative in your scenario is the driver impatiently swinging their door open. In this case the cyclist might well serve into traffic, too. Your argument makes no sense to me.
  - hgomersall 5y ago
    I agree with opening the door a crack as the final check, after you think no cyclist is coming. It seemed the parent post was advocating opening a crack as a first line check. It was that I was opposing.
- t0mas88 5y ago
  Dutch cyclist here :-) you slow down a little, look over your shoulder to see whether there is space and move over. If there is a car at slow speed behind you they see this "look" and typically slow down or make some space as well in anticipation. But if there's a bus at high speed or an asshole when you look over your shoulder, you stop before hitting the door. All of this is easier in Dutch cities with bike lanes and because we cycle much slower than the typical "rider" in San Francisco or London I've seen. Mostly because people commute on old slow bicycles in normal clothes instead of light weight geared bikes and full on sports outfits with helmets.
ilja 5y ago
In the Netherlands the car is always at least 50% at fault in accidents with squishy traffic (cyclists, pedestrians, skaters etc). This motivates people to look carefully before opening doors :) It might look like risk taking but because of laws like this and excellent road design it is actually very save.
- tharne 5y ago
  > In the Netherlands the car is always at least 50% at fault in accidents with squishy traffic That's a fantastic term, "squishy traffic". In the U.S. we often use the term "Vulnerable users", but "squishy traffic" is so much better and so much more memorable.
asoneth 5y ago
> why don’t cyclists ride in the middle of the street and/or slow down a bit That is a reasonable question. If you truly want to know why cyclists generally don't ride slowly in the middle of the street you could always try doing it yourself. > Have you ever seen cyclists in Dutch cities, they are simply stupid risk takers. This is unsupported by the evidence of lower cyclist fatality rates in the Netherlands compared to the US. There is even some evidence that areas that have enacted mandatory helmet laws end up increasing the fatality rate per trip. (Primarily because the number of people riding bikes drops significantly and possibly because cars leave less buffer space to people wearing helmets.)

hgomersall 5y ago

So what does the cyclist do with that warning? Given space they might stop, which is pretty discourteous by the person opening the door, but with insufficient time they might well swerve into a traffic to avoid the collision, which could be far worse.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
How is that any different than cars and turn signals? The obligation is on the party obstructing the traffic flow to not be a dick about it (which includes broadcasting their intentions to some extent) and the secondary obligation is on the moving traffic to not do ludicrous speed so that the former party can accurately predict whether or not they can make their move without being a dick about it.
- hgomersall 5y ago
  If I were cycling past a car and the door began to open, I would (and do) respond on the assumption that that door is going to open all the way. You don't have to be moving fast for that to be problematic. Moreover, there are plenty of places you have continuous parked cars. If you slowed to a genuinely safe speed you may as well be walking.
alamortsubite 5y ago
A good safety protocol incorporates redundancies. The "warning" you're arguing against is secondary to first and foremost carefully checking for approaching cyclists. Both the parent and I were clear about this. (I'll add I'm horrified by everything else the parent wrote.) > Given space they might stop, which is pretty discourteous by the person opening the door Precisely the opposite is true: thoughtfully opening one's door slowly as a backup mechanism in an effort to prevent someone else's injury is very courteous. As a cyclist myself, I'd far prefer to be inconvenienced by an unscheduled stop than I would crash into a car door. > with insufficient time they might well swerve into a traffic to avoid the collision, which could be far worse. The alternative in your scenario is the driver impatiently swinging their door open. In this case the cyclist might well serve into traffic, too. Your argument makes no sense to me.
- hgomersall 5y ago
  I agree with opening the door a crack as the final check, after you think no cyclist is coming. It seemed the parent post was advocating opening a crack as a first line check. It was that I was opposing.
t0mas88 5y ago
Dutch cyclist here :-) you slow down a little, look over your shoulder to see whether there is space and move over. If there is a car at slow speed behind you they see this "look" and typically slow down or make some space as well in anticipation. But if there's a bus at high speed or an asshole when you look over your shoulder, you stop before hitting the door. All of this is easier in Dutch cities with bike lanes and because we cycle much slower than the typical "rider" in San Francisco or London I've seen. Mostly because people commute on old slow bicycles in normal clothes instead of light weight geared bikes and full on sports outfits with helmets.

ilja 5y ago

In the Netherlands the car is always at least 50% at fault in accidents with squishy traffic (cyclists, pedestrians, skaters etc). This motivates people to look carefully before opening doors :) It might look like risk taking but because of laws like this and excellent road design it is actually very save.

tharne 5y ago
> In the Netherlands the car is always at least 50% at fault in accidents with squishy traffic That's a fantastic term, "squishy traffic". In the U.S. we often use the term "Vulnerable users", but "squishy traffic" is so much better and so much more memorable.

asoneth 5y ago

> why don’t cyclists ride in the middle of the street and/or slow down a bit That is a reasonable question. If you truly want to know why cyclists generally don't ride slowly in the middle of the street you could always try doing it yourself. > Have you ever seen cyclists in Dutch cities, they are simply stupid risk takers. This is unsupported by the evidence of lower cyclist fatality rates in the Netherlands compared to the US. There is even some evidence that areas that have enacted mandatory helmet laws end up increasing the fatality rate per trip. (Primarily because the number of people riding bikes drops significantly and possibly because cars leave less buffer space to people wearing helmets.)