4 ms·

The opposite of 'wacky' - key R&D and especially know-how is critical to the development of specific industries and in some cases, it should be guarded. It can

The opposite of 'wacky' - key R&D and especially know-how is critical to the development of specific industries and in some cases, it should be guarded. It can take decades of effort, R&D, product development to develop the key understanding towards making for example, jet turbines, high speed trains, chip fabs etc.. Economic espionage is real and part of China's industrial strategy. It should be noted that 'everyone else' will also steal R&D to the extent that it's related to weapons, but generally not industrial information. That said - probably most research isn't that important, and this kind of thing can easily turn into 'Witch Hunt'. Paradoxically, the CPP will also use an overbearing posture by the US on this issue as part of propaganda efforts. The CCP right now is fighting a 'narrative war' with all the touchy issues: they are circulating information indicating that COVID started in Europe, and in response to stern words by Canada PM Trudeau, China is telling it's citizens the a recent outbreak is due to 'frozen food from China'. Controlling information means being able to tell their citizens whatever they want and having them believe it for the most part. That a few independent thinkers want to 'VPN out' and form their own opinions isn't that important if you can tell 99% of people what the truth is. CCP is playing 'full court press competition' - they are engaging and comprising students on campus [1] , seeking information from well placed ex-patriots [2], planting spies everywhere [3], grabbing people and re-patriating Chinese citizens abroad by force [4], running disinformation campaigns [5], compromising state officials [6] and more. So it's important that our 'values' of true justice, equality, transparency etc. are not compromised, and we don't want to regress to early 20th century racism, but at the same time, it's a 'war' of sorts and it's incredibly naive to operate on the basis that this is not happening and affecting everyone. Probably it will take more than just a simple plan, but a major new way of thinking about China, and a whole series of changes in that regard. Even things such as governments new 'Trustless' IT policy published here yesterday, are a step in the right direction. [1] https://www.propublica.org/article/even-on-us-campuses-china-cracks-down-on-students-who-speak-out https://www.propublica.org/article/even-on-us-campuses-china... [2] https://www.csis.org/programs/technology-policy-program/survey-chinese-linked-espionage-united-states-2000 https://www.csis.org/programs/technology-policy-program/surv... [3] https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/explain-the-chinese-spy-sen-feinstein/2018/08/09/0560ca60-9bfd-11e8-b60b-1c897f17e185_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/explain-the-chinese-... [4] https://thethaiger.com/news/world/china-forced-nearly-10000-nationals-to-return-home-since-2014-ngo-report https://thethaiger.com/news/world/china-forced-nearly-10000-... [5] https://thediplomat.com/2020/06/chinas-disinformation-campaign-in-italy/ https://thediplomat.com/2020/06/chinas-disinformation-campai... [6] https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Barbara-Boxer-China-foreign-agent-Uighur-Muslims-15865511.php https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Barbara-Boxer-China-...

Diesel555 5y ago
> So it's important that our 'values' of true justice, equality, transparency etc. are not compromised, and we don't want to regress to early 20th century racism This is a challenging problem for a democracy being exploited by an authoritarian government. The challenge is 1) Not causing xenophobia (as the article implies) while still 2) recognizing and preventing the practices and influence of the CCP on our population, corporations, and economy which do not align with our moral values and also preventing the export of externalities onto democracies whose very structure allows it. Most of the books I read have something along the lines of first recognizing the author's appreciation for and love of the Chinese people then discussing what the CCP is doing and what a democracy can do to protect itself without compromising its values. If anyone looking into this dichotomy has not seriously studied the subject and just thinks the US government is trying to start a Cold War, is paranoid, or that open markets and will magically fix this problem I recommend a book published in 2022. "The World According to China" - Elizabeth C. Economy.
- jollybean 5y ago
  Yes, that's exactly it. The problem is that the 'infiltration' is pervasive, as designed by the CCP and it therefore gets really nuanced in terms of trying to uphold justice and anti-discrimination. CCP is pursuing '360 Thought Control' within their borders ... but using every avenue outside their borders as well. There are also subtle gradient problems as well: some Chinese students on campuses which have had CCP intimidation have state 'yes it's a thing, but really most of us consider it to be kind of ridiculous'. In that case, it may be a lot of 'intent' but little real influence. But the indirect, knock-on effects can be as dramatic. I once saw a presentation by an American early state investor for the Shenzhen/HK area, keen to give an idea of how the area was expanding. His presentation talked about strategic initiatives of the local governors there, and it was right out of the governments talking points. In short, he was acting as shill for the CCP. I think the only reason he was doing it was to stay in the 'good books' of local governors and to develop relations. The leverage consistently utilized by Chinese government on all such matters is palpable. Hollywood which is an array of people within an industry, not a 'single entity' exemplifies this. The Dalai Lama no longer gets many meetings with high profile dignitaries, and Hollywood has basically 'shut up about the issue' for the most part due entirely to economic coercion. Certainly, one of the measures Western Nations should implement is a transparency policy whereby their measures are given public airing, and possibly 'tit for tat' sanctions, which is to say all measures taken by them imply some kind of in-kind response. It would take a lot of coordination.

Diesel555 5y ago

> So it's important that our 'values' of true justice, equality, transparency etc. are not compromised, and we don't want to regress to early 20th century racism This is a challenging problem for a democracy being exploited by an authoritarian government. The challenge is 1) Not causing xenophobia (as the article implies) while still 2) recognizing and preventing the practices and influence of the CCP on our population, corporations, and economy which do not align with our moral values and also preventing the export of externalities onto democracies whose very structure allows it. Most of the books I read have something along the lines of first recognizing the author's appreciation for and love of the Chinese people then discussing what the CCP is doing and what a democracy can do to protect itself without compromising its values. If anyone looking into this dichotomy has not seriously studied the subject and just thinks the US government is trying to start a Cold War, is paranoid, or that open markets and will magically fix this problem I recommend a book published in 2022. "The World According to China" - Elizabeth C. Economy.

jollybean 5y ago
Yes, that's exactly it. The problem is that the 'infiltration' is pervasive, as designed by the CCP and it therefore gets really nuanced in terms of trying to uphold justice and anti-discrimination. CCP is pursuing '360 Thought Control' within their borders ... but using every avenue outside their borders as well. There are also subtle gradient problems as well: some Chinese students on campuses which have had CCP intimidation have state 'yes it's a thing, but really most of us consider it to be kind of ridiculous'. In that case, it may be a lot of 'intent' but little real influence. But the indirect, knock-on effects can be as dramatic. I once saw a presentation by an American early state investor for the Shenzhen/HK area, keen to give an idea of how the area was expanding. His presentation talked about strategic initiatives of the local governors there, and it was right out of the governments talking points. In short, he was acting as shill for the CCP. I think the only reason he was doing it was to stay in the 'good books' of local governors and to develop relations. The leverage consistently utilized by Chinese government on all such matters is palpable. Hollywood which is an array of people within an industry, not a 'single entity' exemplifies this. The Dalai Lama no longer gets many meetings with high profile dignitaries, and Hollywood has basically 'shut up about the issue' for the most part due entirely to economic coercion. Certainly, one of the measures Western Nations should implement is a transparency policy whereby their measures are given public airing, and possibly 'tit for tat' sanctions, which is to say all measures taken by them imply some kind of in-kind response. It would take a lot of coordination.