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Incorrect. It is a MORAL issue. Technology stolen from the US companies is advancing the national security agendas of countries with no regard for human rights

Incorrect. It is a MORAL issue. Technology stolen from the US companies is advancing the national security agendas of countries with no regard for human rights and the rule of law. It is immoral to turn a blind eye to this very real threat.

StreamBright 5y ago
It is kind of curious fact that the US is not a member of ICC. Could you guess why?
- howmayiannoyyou 5y ago
  There are good reasons why geopolitics cannot be held to strict interpretation of laws, not the least of which is the enforceability paradox, whereby countries more likely to break the norms are less susceptible to enforcement action. This, and attaching the name 'court' on something does not make it any less arbitrary or politically motivated
aceazzameen 5y ago
I'm pretty sure US companies aren't thinking about the morality of it at all. Only $$$ lost and shareholders' emotions.
- WillPostForFood 5y ago
  We know US companies aren't thinking about the morality, nor are US universities, which is why the government is stepping in. If this was happening during the cold war, CEOs and University Presidents would be being indicted for treason.
RyEgswuCsn 5y ago
Well, many military technologies developed by the US companies are being used to manufacture weaponries used to kill foreign civilians... what's the moral of that story? Also, by your logic what if totalitarian regimes are to steal medical technologies from US companies to develop medicines for their citizens? Is that moral or immoral?
- howmayiannoyyou 5y ago
  false equivalence. If you actually cared you would acknowledge the vast difference between China's human rights record and that of the United States.
  - RyEgswuCsn 5y ago
    Interesting. So you think morality is quantifiable? Like it's fine to violate X amount of human rights but not X + 1. I'd like to hear your criteria.
    - howmayiannoyyou 5y ago
      If you think genocide, ethnic cleansing, natural resource exploitation on a global scale, modern day slavery & deadly global pathogen release are equivalent to US misconduct I wouldn't know where to begin in engaging with you.
      - RyEgswuCsn 5y ago
        I can spin this too if you allow me: "genocide" of Muslims via constant war-waging; "ethnic cleansing" of native Americans; natural resource exploitation on a global scale; "modern day slavery" (i.e. extreme capitalism) both domestically by trapping workers into lifetime debts, and overseas by outsourcing to sweat shops; "deadly global pathogen release" by politicising pandemic responses while failing at it. Rivalry states smear each others all the time. Also no contender for hegemony is morally superior than another.
        howmayiannoyyou 5y ago
        > no contender for hegemony is morally superior than another. Contemplate Nazi Germany winning WWII, or Soviet Russia winning the Cold War. Your contention doesn't stand up to history's lessons.
        5y ago
tharne 5y ago
> It is a MORAL issue. Technology stolen from the US companies is advancing the national security agendas of countries with no regard for human rights and the rule of law. It is immoral to turn a blind eye to this very real threat. This 100%.
Banana699 5y ago
With all due respect, this is completely irrelevant. This same technology and better is being sold out to countries like Saudi Arabia[1] and Israel[2], which are not exactly shining beacons of human rights. What seems to be the argument here ? "If China wants to use US tech to oppress and kill people with no regard for human rights and the rule of law... they have to PAY for it first, like all respectable totalitarians do"? [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Israel
- howmayiannoyyou 5y ago
  Your point being: since the US provides aid to countries whose human rights records are controversial China should be free to steal and misuse US intellectual property. Great argument. Have fun in a world where China's views on human rights prevail. I'm sure you & your family and their families will be very happy.
  - Banana699 5y ago
    >Your point being: since the US provides aid to countries whose human rights records are controversial China should be free to steal and misuse US intellectual property. That's not my point at all. My point is that it's hypocritical to worry about China using stolen US tech to augment and cement it's oppressive regime when there are countries whose entire dark existence is carved out of US tech and support. Quantitatively speaking, the marginal utility that China gets from each stolen piece of US tech is probably lower than what they get from each million dollar the US government borrows from them, or each 100000 teenager who downloads tiktok, or from each 100 customer who buy their phones. What I'm trying to say here is that China is not dependent on stolen R&D to opress and brutalize people, they can opress and brutalize people perfectly fine without it, it's just an added bonus on what they already can do. On the other hand US support for the 2 countries that I mentioned is literally keeping them together against astounding resistence, I would gladly bet my life they would fall apart in <= 10 years if the US was taken out of all geopolitical equations in front of everybody's eyes. If you knew the sheer amount of tyranny and evil the US is single-handedly pumping into the Middle East through those 2 countries alone, you wouldn't be able to sleep at night or day. So to sum up : I don't think your offense at China's use of US tech is proportional to the amount of damage that tech actually ends up doing. There are other countries where US tech and arms are at least 2 orders of magnitude more destructive and suffering-inducing. >human rights records are controversial What a creative way to understate the fact that one of the countries mentioned cut a journalist in half with a chainsaw, while the other bombs civilians on a yearly basis and kills literal babies. "Controversial" is how you describe an things where there are credible differences of opinion on; not raw, pure evil.
coliveira 5y ago
If your problem is with human rights and the rule of law, you should stop US violations first, because the US the most powerful country. The American military continues its aggression on human rights around the world.

StreamBright 5y ago

It is kind of curious fact that the US is not a member of ICC. Could you guess why?

howmayiannoyyou 5y ago
There are good reasons why geopolitics cannot be held to strict interpretation of laws, not the least of which is the enforceability paradox, whereby countries more likely to break the norms are less susceptible to enforcement action. This, and attaching the name 'court' on something does not make it any less arbitrary or politically motivated

aceazzameen 5y ago

I'm pretty sure US companies aren't thinking about the morality of it at all. Only $$$ lost and shareholders' emotions.

WillPostForFood 5y ago
We know US companies aren't thinking about the morality, nor are US universities, which is why the government is stepping in. If this was happening during the cold war, CEOs and University Presidents would be being indicted for treason.

RyEgswuCsn 5y ago

Well, many military technologies developed by the US companies are being used to manufacture weaponries used to kill foreign civilians... what's the moral of that story? Also, by your logic what if totalitarian regimes are to steal medical technologies from US companies to develop medicines for their citizens? Is that moral or immoral?

howmayiannoyyou 5y ago
false equivalence. If you actually cared you would acknowledge the vast difference between China's human rights record and that of the United States.
- RyEgswuCsn 5y ago
  Interesting. So you think morality is quantifiable? Like it's fine to violate X amount of human rights but not X + 1. I'd like to hear your criteria.
  - howmayiannoyyou 5y ago
    If you think genocide, ethnic cleansing, natural resource exploitation on a global scale, modern day slavery & deadly global pathogen release are equivalent to US misconduct I wouldn't know where to begin in engaging with you.
    - RyEgswuCsn 5y ago
      I can spin this too if you allow me: "genocide" of Muslims via constant war-waging; "ethnic cleansing" of native Americans; natural resource exploitation on a global scale; "modern day slavery" (i.e. extreme capitalism) both domestically by trapping workers into lifetime debts, and overseas by outsourcing to sweat shops; "deadly global pathogen release" by politicising pandemic responses while failing at it. Rivalry states smear each others all the time. Also no contender for hegemony is morally superior than another.
      - howmayiannoyyou 5y ago
        > no contender for hegemony is morally superior than another. Contemplate Nazi Germany winning WWII, or Soviet Russia winning the Cold War. Your contention doesn't stand up to history's lessons.
        5y ago

tharne 5y ago

> It is a MORAL issue. Technology stolen from the US companies is advancing the national security agendas of countries with no regard for human rights and the rule of law. It is immoral to turn a blind eye to this very real threat. This 100%.

Banana699 5y ago

With all due respect, this is completely irrelevant. This same technology and better is being sold out to countries like Saudi Arabia[1] and Israel[2], which are not exactly shining beacons of human rights. What seems to be the argument here ? "If China wants to use US tech to oppress and kill people with no regard for human rights and the rule of law... they have to PAY for it first, like all respectable totalitarians do"? [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Israel

howmayiannoyyou 5y ago
Your point being: since the US provides aid to countries whose human rights records are controversial China should be free to steal and misuse US intellectual property. Great argument. Have fun in a world where China's views on human rights prevail. I'm sure you & your family and their families will be very happy.
- Banana699 5y ago
  >Your point being: since the US provides aid to countries whose human rights records are controversial China should be free to steal and misuse US intellectual property. That's not my point at all. My point is that it's hypocritical to worry about China using stolen US tech to augment and cement it's oppressive regime when there are countries whose entire dark existence is carved out of US tech and support. Quantitatively speaking, the marginal utility that China gets from each stolen piece of US tech is probably lower than what they get from each million dollar the US government borrows from them, or each 100000 teenager who downloads tiktok, or from each 100 customer who buy their phones. What I'm trying to say here is that China is not dependent on stolen R&D to opress and brutalize people, they can opress and brutalize people perfectly fine without it, it's just an added bonus on what they already can do. On the other hand US support for the 2 countries that I mentioned is literally keeping them together against astounding resistence, I would gladly bet my life they would fall apart in <= 10 years if the US was taken out of all geopolitical equations in front of everybody's eyes. If you knew the sheer amount of tyranny and evil the US is single-handedly pumping into the Middle East through those 2 countries alone, you wouldn't be able to sleep at night or day. So to sum up : I don't think your offense at China's use of US tech is proportional to the amount of damage that tech actually ends up doing. There are other countries where US tech and arms are at least 2 orders of magnitude more destructive and suffering-inducing. >human rights records are controversial What a creative way to understate the fact that one of the countries mentioned cut a journalist in half with a chainsaw, while the other bombs civilians on a yearly basis and kills literal babies. "Controversial" is how you describe an things where there are credible differences of opinion on; not raw, pure evil.

coliveira 5y ago

If your problem is with human rights and the rule of law, you should stop US violations first, because the US the most powerful country. The American military continues its aggression on human rights around the world.