4 ms·

This is one of those things that only happen in anglo-like systems. In more "napoleonic" systems, the State has direct oversight of this sort of thing. In Italy

by toyg 5y ago

This is one of those things that only happen in anglo-like systems. In more "napoleonic" systems, the State has direct oversight of this sort of thing. In Italy or France, if a local authority tried to pull something like this, the police would literally step in and disband it a day after. You can have disputes on the legality of the election, or confusion about who should take the seat afterwards, but you can't just hold elections and then ignore the result.

3pt14159 5y ago
This may sound strange to foreign ears, but I kinda like the ramshackle nature of local politics in Anglo systems. It feels more Bilbo Baggins. So long as the courts stay honest we can weather these minor outrages that crop up every so often.
omginternets 5y ago
True. As much as we like to gripe about administrative proceduralism (and it can be very irritating), it does address this problem quite well.
deleted 5y ago
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ajnin 5y ago
Well, I'm not that confident. If the "offender" happens to be friends with "the state", that is, the party in power, then it's very likely that not much will happen, the executive will be happy to let them be, the prosecutors, who are not independent, will ignore the problem, and the judiciary will have its hands tied. Stories of corrupt politicians enjoying years and years of pilfering of the public good are much more common in "napoleonic" systems, it feels. It's better to have a strong judiciary than a strong administrative police, imho.
- toyg 5y ago
  > Stories of corrupt politicians enjoying years and years of pilfering of the public good are much more common in "napoleonic" systems, it feels That's largely because "pilfering of the public good" is much more precisely defined in such systems. There is plenty of corruption in anglo systems too. In fact, having moved to England, I've become accustomed to a degree of impropriety I honestly did not expect. It's just that a series of behaviors that would be explicitly considered illegal where I come from, here belong to a grey area that may or may not ever be illuminated by lawsuits. Because oversight is extremely weak, one can get away very easily with administrative murder. It's easy to look honest when bad behavior is not considered dishonest.

by toyg 5y ago

3pt14159 5y ago

This may sound strange to foreign ears, but I kinda like the ramshackle nature of local politics in Anglo systems. It feels more Bilbo Baggins. So long as the courts stay honest we can weather these minor outrages that crop up every so often.

omginternets 5y ago

True. As much as we like to gripe about administrative proceduralism (and it can be very irritating), it does address this problem quite well.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

ajnin 5y ago

Well, I'm not that confident. If the "offender" happens to be friends with "the state", that is, the party in power, then it's very likely that not much will happen, the executive will be happy to let them be, the prosecutors, who are not independent, will ignore the problem, and the judiciary will have its hands tied. Stories of corrupt politicians enjoying years and years of pilfering of the public good are much more common in "napoleonic" systems, it feels. It's better to have a strong judiciary than a strong administrative police, imho.

toyg 5y ago
> Stories of corrupt politicians enjoying years and years of pilfering of the public good are much more common in "napoleonic" systems, it feels That's largely because "pilfering of the public good" is much more precisely defined in such systems. There is plenty of corruption in anglo systems too. In fact, having moved to England, I've become accustomed to a degree of impropriety I honestly did not expect. It's just that a series of behaviors that would be explicitly considered illegal where I come from, here belong to a grey area that may or may not ever be illuminated by lawsuits. Because oversight is extremely weak, one can get away very easily with administrative murder. It's easy to look honest when bad behavior is not considered dishonest.