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>The dismissal is a setback to the China Initiative, an effort started in 2018 to crack down on economic and scientific espionage by China. Many of the prosecut

by tsol 5y ago

>The dismissal is a setback to the China Initiative, an effort started in 2018 to crack down on economic and scientific espionage by China. Many of the prosecutions, like the case against Dr. Chen, do not allege espionage or theft of information, but something narrower: failing to disclose Chinese affiliations in grant applications to U.S. agencies. Critics say it has instilled a pervasive atmosphere of fear among scientists of Chinese descent. While I can agree with and see the value of the overall agenda, it seems a matter of bad application. I won't pretend to be an expert on the matter who can say exactly what needs to be done, but I wonder about how necessary it really is to drag people through the mud in such cases. It certainly can have a chilling effect on scientists with affiliations to Chinese entities, many of which are plenty secular. I understand the impetus to investigate all affiliations when a foreign state is involved, but at the same time it becomes self destructive if it goes too far all too quickly. The solution, to me, seems to fall on those doing the investigating; that the investigating parties must hold to a higher and better informed standard before bringing forth charges that could hurt American scientists, and by extention, American science

p_l 5y ago
What if the chilling effect and cruelty is the, perhaps silent, point?
elzbardico 5y ago
The problem with law enforcement today is that they want their work cut out for them. Instead of doing the old school investigation stuff and THEN getting a subpoena, they instead want to have blanket access to all of our communications. Instead of proving real espionage, they want to merely assert "suspect" links and then you're the one who have to prove you're innocent. Instead of finding drug dealers and terrorists the old fashioned way, they want all of your bank transactions reported automatically for them, so they can sit on their chairs and deep learn their way into your data towards some flimsy accusation that they will use to pressure you into pledging your guilty to something. Really, it is about time we raise our voices agains that. It is about time we say enough is enough. It is about time for us to say, the State serve its Citizens, and not the other way around. Fuck this bureaucratic neo-feudalism. Let us say no for this shit! --- BASTILLE DAY Music: Geddy Lee and Alex Lifeson Lyrics: Neil Peart There’s no bread let them eat cake \ There’s no end to what they’ll take \ Flaunt the fruits of noble birth \ Wash the salt into the earth \ But they’re marching to Bastille Day \ La guillotine will claim her bloody prize \ Free the dungeons of the innocent \ The king will kneel, and let his kingdom rise \ Bloodstained velvet, dirty lace \ Naked fear on every face \ See them bow their heads to die \ As we would bow as they rode by \ And we’re marching to Bastille Day \ La guillotine will claim her bloody prize \ Sing, o choirs of cacophony \ The king has kneeled, to let his kingdom rise. \ Lessons taught, but never learned \ All around us anger burns \ Guide the future by the past \ Long ago the mould was cast \ For they marched up to Bastille Day \ La guillotine – claimed her bloody prize \ Hear the echoes of the centuries \ Power isn’t all that money buys \
kelnos 5y ago
The problem is also that it targets a specific group for the (alleged!) actions of a tiny fraction of that group. That sort of thing creates an unwarranted atmosphere of distrust that hurts everyone. A broad-based initiative to stop economic and scientific espionage? Sure, that could be a good idea. A targeted initiative that obviously will end up demonizing a particular race/nationality/ancestry of people? No, not good at all. I absolutely agree that the investigating parties need to have higher standards of investigation. But the entire framing of it as the "China Initiative", literally an intent to target people for persecution based on their national origin, is a huge problem.

by tsol 5y ago

p_l 5y ago

What if the chilling effect and cruelty is the, perhaps silent, point?

elzbardico 5y ago

The problem with law enforcement today is that they want their work cut out for them. Instead of doing the old school investigation stuff and THEN getting a subpoena, they instead want to have blanket access to all of our communications. Instead of proving real espionage, they want to merely assert "suspect" links and then you're the one who have to prove you're innocent. Instead of finding drug dealers and terrorists the old fashioned way, they want all of your bank transactions reported automatically for them, so they can sit on their chairs and deep learn their way into your data towards some flimsy accusation that they will use to pressure you into pledging your guilty to something. Really, it is about time we raise our voices agains that. It is about time we say enough is enough. It is about time for us to say, the State serve its Citizens, and not the other way around. Fuck this bureaucratic neo-feudalism. Let us say no for this shit! --- BASTILLE DAY Music: Geddy Lee and Alex Lifeson Lyrics: Neil Peart There’s no bread let them eat cake \ There’s no end to what they’ll take \ Flaunt the fruits of noble birth \ Wash the salt into the earth \ But they’re marching to Bastille Day \ La guillotine will claim her bloody prize \ Free the dungeons of the innocent \ The king will kneel, and let his kingdom rise \ Bloodstained velvet, dirty lace \ Naked fear on every face \ See them bow their heads to die \ As we would bow as they rode by \ And we’re marching to Bastille Day \ La guillotine will claim her bloody prize \ Sing, o choirs of cacophony \ The king has kneeled, to let his kingdom rise. \ Lessons taught, but never learned \ All around us anger burns \ Guide the future by the past \ Long ago the mould was cast \ For they marched up to Bastille Day \ La guillotine – claimed her bloody prize \ Hear the echoes of the centuries \ Power isn’t all that money buys \

kelnos 5y ago

The problem is also that it targets a specific group for the (alleged!) actions of a tiny fraction of that group. That sort of thing creates an unwarranted atmosphere of distrust that hurts everyone. A broad-based initiative to stop economic and scientific espionage? Sure, that could be a good idea. A targeted initiative that obviously will end up demonizing a particular race/nationality/ancestry of people? No, not good at all. I absolutely agree that the investigating parties need to have higher standards of investigation. But the entire framing of it as the "China Initiative", literally an intent to target people for persecution based on their national origin, is a huge problem.