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Newton and Einstein both seem to be on the side of hidden variables, so I'm not sure if it's unpopular among the elites. I have a lot of trouble imagining any

Newton and Einstein both seem to be on the side of hidden variables, so I'm not sure if it's unpopular among the elites. I have a lot of trouble imagining any experiment which could completely rule out every other influencing factor. There are silly thought experiments such as what if the world has been objective for the last x00 years - prior to that and after, the laws we've observed during the period would bend; things will become inconsistent. It's silly and I don't even believe it, but it does show that science is incapable of completely ruling out everything. The truth could be endemic mystery. Endemic insanely and terrifyingly simple endless levels of understanding. In a way science is nothing unless that's the reality.

guerrilla 5y ago
> I have a lot of trouble imagining any experiment which could completely rule out every other influencing factor It's called Bell's theorem and it can even be tested at home[4]. There are no local hidden variables in quantum mechanics.[1][2][3] 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell%27s_theorem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell%27s_theorem 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPR_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPR_paradox 3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden-variable_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden-variable_theory 4a. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcqZHYo7ONs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcqZHYo7ONs 4b. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzRCDLre1b4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzRCDLre1b4
- lulantivaxxers 5y ago
  Thanks for this, hidden variable theories are very seductive but Bell's Theorem is definitive.
  - naasking 5y ago
    It's definitive that you have to give up locality (Bohmian mechanics), counterfactual definiteness (Copenhagen and others), or statistical independence (Superdeterminism). It's not definitive at all about local hidden variables.
    - guerrilla 5y ago
      > It's not definitive at all about local hidden variables. What? > To date, Bell tests have found that the hypothesis of local hidden variables is inconsistent with the way that physical systems do, in fact, behave.
      - naasking 5y ago
        Bell's theorem assumes statistical independence in its proof that local hidden variables can't reproduce QM. Superdeterminism violates statistical independence, therefore Bell's theorem does not rule out a superdeterministic local hidden variables theory, like this one: https://arxiv.org/abs/2010.01327v5 https://arxiv.org/abs/2010.01327v5
        guerrilla 5y ago
        Oh, thank you. I've been meaning to check her blog on this.
emptyfile 5y ago
> Newton and Einstein both seem to be on the side of hidden variables, so I'm not sure if it's unpopular among the elites. Everyday posters on this website amaze me. I should really stop coming here...

guerrilla 5y ago

> I have a lot of trouble imagining any experiment which could completely rule out every other influencing factor It's called Bell's theorem and it can even be tested at home[4]. There are no local hidden variables in quantum mechanics.[1][2][3] 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell%27s_theorem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell%27s_theorem 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPR_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPR_paradox 3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden-variable_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden-variable_theory 4a. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcqZHYo7ONs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcqZHYo7ONs 4b. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzRCDLre1b4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzRCDLre1b4

lulantivaxxers 5y ago
Thanks for this, hidden variable theories are very seductive but Bell's Theorem is definitive.
- naasking 5y ago
  It's definitive that you have to give up locality (Bohmian mechanics), counterfactual definiteness (Copenhagen and others), or statistical independence (Superdeterminism). It's not definitive at all about local hidden variables.
  - guerrilla 5y ago
    > It's not definitive at all about local hidden variables. What? > To date, Bell tests have found that the hypothesis of local hidden variables is inconsistent with the way that physical systems do, in fact, behave.
    - naasking 5y ago
      Bell's theorem assumes statistical independence in its proof that local hidden variables can't reproduce QM. Superdeterminism violates statistical independence, therefore Bell's theorem does not rule out a superdeterministic local hidden variables theory, like this one: https://arxiv.org/abs/2010.01327v5 https://arxiv.org/abs/2010.01327v5
      - guerrilla 5y ago
        Oh, thank you. I've been meaning to check her blog on this.

emptyfile 5y ago

> Newton and Einstein both seem to be on the side of hidden variables, so I'm not sure if it's unpopular among the elites. Everyday posters on this website amaze me. I should really stop coming here...