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It's not that easy, unfortunately. The problem lies in the relationship between a mind - the system of patterns of connections and processes that constitute wha
by robbedpeter 5y ago
It's not that easy, unfortunately. The problem lies in the relationship between a mind - the system of patterns of connections and processes that constitute whatever it is that allows a subjective experience to occur as an emergent property - and the external world. That singleton which has experience, and the infinite outside which it experiences.
Free will could be framed as unpredictable behavior arising from the emergent system itself, where the selection of one choice among many is deterministic, but otherwise indistinguishable from a non-deterministic system to any other mind. This is a plausible scenario that aligns with chaos theory and implies that every mind is a unique occurrence.
The firing of a single neuron can be triggered by quantum circumstances affecting the location and energy of a single calcium ion, and that single neuron can be responsible for radically different states in the meta-patterns that comprise a mind at any given point in time. Even software on silicon could be subject to bitrot, cosmic bit flips, and other fundamentally unpredictable changes. How such randomness affects the system plays into whether free will can exist in this sense.
The idea behind free will is that the mind has the ability to make choices independent of any influence except itself. It's highly probable that minds are entirely abstract, dependent on the physics of its substrate but existing as an emergent result of the particular arrangement of particles and energy in the substrate. If the choices made by a mind are indistinguishable from a hypothetically independent system not dependent on the physics of the substrate, it could be seen as "free will." Is definitely not the religious/supernatural Free Will, though.
If a mind is perfectly replicable - if you can perfectly simulate the state and ongoing experience of the mind bit for bit, - then you should be able to perfectly predict its behavior and state over time. It could be that such replication is mathematically possible but fundamentally intractable. Such a result would mean minds exhibit behavior indistinguishable from free will. It would mean that perfect knowledge of the state of the mind could never be known outside the mind itself - an extension of Heisenberg uncertainty - and simulations would be inaccurate.
The emergent, entirely abstract meta-system comprising the mind and its subjective experience could also be seen as the non-physical soul or spirit. That doesn't make room for the supernatural or magic in the universe. It might mean that divergence from prediction by the outside exists but is vanishingly small. It could also imply high probability of divergence if compute capacity needed for simulation grows exponentially over time and capacity of the mind being simulated. The answers will depend on exactly whatever "minds" turn out to be and the mathematics that govern the phenomena.
I personally think that radical divergence is likely, for no better reason than to think the universe is a much more interesting and weird place should that be true. It would mean that minds will forever be surprising, however much we increase computation and efficiency.
- TheOtherHobbes 5y agoYes exactly - "free will" is shorthand for "There's a mind with subjective experiences involved in all of this, and we have no idea what that means or if it even means anything." We don't know what minds or qualia are, and until we know for sure - as opposed to hoping and guessing and "well obviously..." - these speculations are just hand-waving. The problem is that all of physics is filtered through our minds. We literally have no way to experience reality without experiencing it through a human mind. So although we've managed to persuade ourselves our experiences of science are "objective", all that really means is that other human minds are very likely to have similar experiences if we set up similar circumstances in similar situations. Potentially our minds could be operating in the conceptual and experiential equivalent of the visible light spectrum, and the range of possible "objective" experiences is very much wider.
- ngcc_hk 5y agoYou cannot replicate exactly. The essence of qm is not q but the uncertainty principle. The mix of both classical works after “collapse” and the so called underlying infinity reach complex number world is not a or b but a and b somehow together. The @and@ part may answer the free will question. Not the a or b part alone.
- seiferteric 5y agoIt seems like a difference between a scientific philosophy definition of free will vs a common or theological one. I don't think most people would find the unpredictability definition very satisfying, even if philosophers or scientists use it. Lots of very simple systems can be unpredictable, like a decaying atom, but it is not exhibiting free will. I do think most people have an idea of "self" that is not predetermined, or probabilistic, but instead has some form of definite control (whatever that means) over their decisions. As such they can feel "good" about making the "right" decision and "bad for the "wrong" decisions etc. If each decision, no matter how complex the circuitry in your brain has become (remember you didn't have any control over that, it just happened) comes down to a deterministic or probabilistic process, I just don't really find it satisfying to call that "free will".