7 ms·

Why don't apps like this leverage gpu hardware acceleration? On my old tablet, Netflix runs a-ok, the media player has hardware acceleration and runs a-ok, but

Why don't apps like this leverage gpu hardware acceleration? On my old tablet, Netflix runs a-ok, the media player has hardware acceleration and runs a-ok, but Amazon Prime stutters. I haven't checked it in years, so maybe it is better now, but I am skeptical this is the case, because if the original creators of the Android app didn't think hardware accelerated video might be a nice idea, why would it be different now? This is a structural issue.

lathiat 5y ago
There is a cross sectional problem between what codecs that specific hardware supports (and generally is supported by all the popular devices), how much bandwidth you have on your connection and how many different codecs the various streaming services can support and cache locally. There are trade offs to be made.
- shmerl 5y ago
  Didn't everyone agree to align on AV1? So that should become a non issue as its adoption progresses.
  - Sunspark 5y ago
    What about all the older CPUs and GPUs out there that don't have hardware support for AV1?
    - shmerl 5y ago
      That's why I said as it's being adopted. Right now it's just the very beginning of this phase (for instance AMD just started providing hardware decode in RDNA2). So I expect this to become a non issue at some point.
      - Sunspark 5y ago
        As long as they don't take it as an excuse to reduce bitrates further. It's getting pretty bad these days with macro-blocking everywhere. This practice really took off when covid started. I actually cancelled Netflix because of it. Amazon is not as bad for macroblocks, but I have run into a few shows that show macroblocks, such as Mr. Robot.
        ksec 5y ago
        >As long as they don't take it as an excuse to reduce bitrates further. I actually think it is easier ( comparatively speaking ) to push for improved Networking so someday bitrate becomes less of a concern. Just like what happened with Audio. Even with the state of the art VVC Encoder, you only get about 65% ( or 2.8x ) reduction in bitrate in most common cases compared to x264. 65% reduction in 20 years isn't exactly a lot. We have easily got 20x bandwidth reduction in cost in the past 20 years. Netflix are testing with 800Gbps per box now. May be when PCI-E 5.0 is available along with higher memory bandwidth they could try 1.6Tbps per box within the this decade.
        Sunspark 5y ago
        Lots of people have plenty of bandwidth. I certainly do. It's the service providers who refuse to send it. It's pretty pathetic, because if you obtain a 4k to 1080p re-encode from a third party, you will get a better picture quality than what the services send directly as 1080. They will not send a 4k bitrate stream to a lower resolution display, so it's necessary to patronize third parties. It's only since covid that they latched onto the excuse propagated by idiots out there that the internet couldn't handle people watching video from home, and immediately jumped on it as an excuse to cut quality to save a penny. Executive bonuses all around. Clap clap.
        tormeh 5y ago
        AV1 fixes the "square blocks in dark scenes" artifacts. It just doesn't have them. So that's good news.
    - snuxoll 5y ago
      Or even new ones, like the AMD Radeon RX 6500 XT that had the AV1 decoder chopped off the Navi die for some inexplicable reason.
      - dannyw 5y ago
        The reason is because it's harvested from a laptop chip; and in laptops, the Ryzen 5000 media engine features AV1 decode, so it's wasted die space. Still, the 6500 XT is an awful GPU.
        ChuckNorris89 5y ago
        >the Ryzen 5000 media engine features AV1 decode No it doesn't.[1] Ryzen 5000's iGPU is based on the older Vega architecture and has no AV1 support, so everyone like me who just bought a brand speaking new laptop with Ryzen 5000 will be screwed soon enough. [1] https://cpufinder.com/amd-ryzen-7-5800u https://cpufinder.com/amd-ryzen-7-5800u
        shmerl 5y ago
        Yeah, you need to wait until 6000 series. AMD really dragged their feet with APUs.
  - ksec 5y ago
    >Didn't everyone agree to align on AV1? Not that I am aware of. I have more faith in that with AV2.
    - shmerl 5y ago
      Judging by the list of backers, it looks like everyone who matters anyway.
- Sunspark 5y ago
  Fair, but in this case I think the tablet should be usable. Sure it's old and only a dual-core cpu, but checking the list of hardware accelerated qualcomm decoder codecs it supports, it lists: vc1, divx, divx311, divx4, avc, mpeg2, mpeg4, h263. Surely AVC which is h.264 should still be supported.. Maybe it gets tripped up trying to use the software google decoder codecs instead? That said, I am not able to test it anymore. The tablet is on kitkat and I'm not able today to find a site hosting a minsdk older than lollipop. It's not a big deal, but it's disappointing to see apks for services that used to work just disappear. They always gobble on about "security". Why is it a problem for everyone else except Netflix? Netflix loves supporting devices.
  - nopenopenopeno 5y ago
    Can you recommend any resources for learning about video codecs?
    - the_only_law 5y ago
      Not sure if this is what you’re looking for, but this popped up a while back: https://blog.tempus-ex.com/hello-video-codec/ https://blog.tempus-ex.com/hello-video-codec/
      - nopenopenopeno 5y ago
        This is perfect! Thank you!
      - astrange 5y ago
        This is vaguely okay but makes the common mistake of overemphasizing that codecs use an IDCT. That's just a component of intra-prediction, it isn't necessarily important or used, and in H.264+ it isn't even a real IDCT when it is used. It's a simpler transform that isn't mathematically accurate but is bit-exact, which is more important.
    - Sunspark 5y ago
      doom9 has a lot of good discussion.

lathiat 5y ago

There is a cross sectional problem between what codecs that specific hardware supports (and generally is supported by all the popular devices), how much bandwidth you have on your connection and how many different codecs the various streaming services can support and cache locally. There are trade offs to be made.

shmerl 5y ago
Didn't everyone agree to align on AV1? So that should become a non issue as its adoption progresses.
- Sunspark 5y ago
  What about all the older CPUs and GPUs out there that don't have hardware support for AV1?
  - shmerl 5y ago
    That's why I said as it's being adopted. Right now it's just the very beginning of this phase (for instance AMD just started providing hardware decode in RDNA2). So I expect this to become a non issue at some point.
    - Sunspark 5y ago
      As long as they don't take it as an excuse to reduce bitrates further. It's getting pretty bad these days with macro-blocking everywhere. This practice really took off when covid started. I actually cancelled Netflix because of it. Amazon is not as bad for macroblocks, but I have run into a few shows that show macroblocks, such as Mr. Robot.
      - ksec 5y ago
        >As long as they don't take it as an excuse to reduce bitrates further. I actually think it is easier ( comparatively speaking ) to push for improved Networking so someday bitrate becomes less of a concern. Just like what happened with Audio. Even with the state of the art VVC Encoder, you only get about 65% ( or 2.8x ) reduction in bitrate in most common cases compared to x264. 65% reduction in 20 years isn't exactly a lot. We have easily got 20x bandwidth reduction in cost in the past 20 years. Netflix are testing with 800Gbps per box now. May be when PCI-E 5.0 is available along with higher memory bandwidth they could try 1.6Tbps per box within the this decade.
        Sunspark 5y ago
        Lots of people have plenty of bandwidth. I certainly do. It's the service providers who refuse to send it. It's pretty pathetic, because if you obtain a 4k to 1080p re-encode from a third party, you will get a better picture quality than what the services send directly as 1080. They will not send a 4k bitrate stream to a lower resolution display, so it's necessary to patronize third parties. It's only since covid that they latched onto the excuse propagated by idiots out there that the internet couldn't handle people watching video from home, and immediately jumped on it as an excuse to cut quality to save a penny. Executive bonuses all around. Clap clap.
      - tormeh 5y ago
        AV1 fixes the "square blocks in dark scenes" artifacts. It just doesn't have them. So that's good news.
  - snuxoll 5y ago
    Or even new ones, like the AMD Radeon RX 6500 XT that had the AV1 decoder chopped off the Navi die for some inexplicable reason.
    - dannyw 5y ago
      The reason is because it's harvested from a laptop chip; and in laptops, the Ryzen 5000 media engine features AV1 decode, so it's wasted die space. Still, the 6500 XT is an awful GPU.
      - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
        >the Ryzen 5000 media engine features AV1 decode No it doesn't.[1] Ryzen 5000's iGPU is based on the older Vega architecture and has no AV1 support, so everyone like me who just bought a brand speaking new laptop with Ryzen 5000 will be screwed soon enough. [1] https://cpufinder.com/amd-ryzen-7-5800u https://cpufinder.com/amd-ryzen-7-5800u
        shmerl 5y ago
        Yeah, you need to wait until 6000 series. AMD really dragged their feet with APUs.
- ksec 5y ago
  >Didn't everyone agree to align on AV1? Not that I am aware of. I have more faith in that with AV2.
  - shmerl 5y ago
    Judging by the list of backers, it looks like everyone who matters anyway.
Sunspark 5y ago
Fair, but in this case I think the tablet should be usable. Sure it's old and only a dual-core cpu, but checking the list of hardware accelerated qualcomm decoder codecs it supports, it lists: vc1, divx, divx311, divx4, avc, mpeg2, mpeg4, h263. Surely AVC which is h.264 should still be supported.. Maybe it gets tripped up trying to use the software google decoder codecs instead? That said, I am not able to test it anymore. The tablet is on kitkat and I'm not able today to find a site hosting a minsdk older than lollipop. It's not a big deal, but it's disappointing to see apks for services that used to work just disappear. They always gobble on about "security". Why is it a problem for everyone else except Netflix? Netflix loves supporting devices.
- nopenopenopeno 5y ago
  Can you recommend any resources for learning about video codecs?
  - the_only_law 5y ago
    Not sure if this is what you’re looking for, but this popped up a while back: https://blog.tempus-ex.com/hello-video-codec/ https://blog.tempus-ex.com/hello-video-codec/
    - nopenopenopeno 5y ago
      This is perfect! Thank you!
    - astrange 5y ago
      This is vaguely okay but makes the common mistake of overemphasizing that codecs use an IDCT. That's just a component of intra-prediction, it isn't necessarily important or used, and in H.264+ it isn't even a real IDCT when it is used. It's a simpler transform that isn't mathematically accurate but is bit-exact, which is more important.
  - Sunspark 5y ago
    doom9 has a lot of good discussion.