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You are wrong. Deeply wrong. I respect HN's rules, so I won't reply as I really want to. There is deep psychological damage to kids who sat alone, by themselve

You are wrong. Deeply wrong. I respect HN's rules, so I won't reply as I really want to. There is deep psychological damage to kids who sat alone, by themselves for the past year. Have others had it worse in history? Sure. But that's like saying if you get run over by a Prius, it doesn't matter because people that got hit by a truck had it worse. And for all that keeping kids at home, we really didn't gain anything. If you look at places and regions that kept kids in school and compare them to places that shut schools down, there's no discernable difference in outcomes. Because people intermingled anyway. So we could've at least had kids socializing and developing normally for that cost.

GiorgioG 5y ago
You're wrong. Deeply wrong. There is no deep psychological damage. Children are not fragile snowflakes - they're adaptable, resilient little humans. That's why as a species we continue to thrive. Stop inventing new problems that don't exist - there's already enough to go around.
- adamcstephens 5y ago
  Humans are social animals and we can most definitely have negative long term impacts from social issues at childhood.
- kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 5y ago
  My wife used to teach reading to elementary aged children with reading comprehension issues. And she found that you cannot teach children how to make letter sounds via Zoom. They cannot see, hear, and experience the inflections and mouth/tongue movements required. The result is these children don't learn how to read. And studies have shown for ages that if a child is not a proficient reader by grade 3, they will likely never be proficient, ever. That's just one of many costs. We're leaving these children behind.
- pcmoney 5y ago
  Have you talked to kids? Seen them? This has deeply and possibly irrevocably damaged many if not most of them.
  - GiorgioG 5y ago
    Seeing as I have 2 kids and plenty of kids live in my neighborhood, none of them are walking around like damaged zombies - it's hard to take you seriously.
- gilbetron 5y ago
  They are resilient, my son will (probably) be fine - but that doesn't mean there wasn't damage done. I ask all his teachers what the effect has on the kids in comparison, and without an exception, they all point out that nearly all kids aren't as far along as they normally would be: emotionally, socially and academically. Most of them will mostly catch up. Some won't, and all will have an imprint of the pandemic on them in many ways. Minimizing this does nothing for them. And remember, a depressed kid doesn't always look sad, but can seem happy go lucky as they are trying to be what their parents want them to be.
ern 5y ago
There is deep psychological damage to kids who sat alone, by themselves for the past year. My kids and their friends repurposed their remote learning tools (MS Teams) and have had more creative interaction with their peers than they would have had otherwise (it's always been a pain organizing real-world play-dates). I'm surprised that this wasn't a more widespread experience.
- prepend 5y ago
  My kids didn’t. What’s your point? It’s hard to measure this systematically and I’m glad that your experiences were positive. My kids had marked drop in grades and really suffered. It wasn’t so much the social aspect as teachers and schools not being to adapt to new methods. I’d like to see trends in standardized tests during this period as I think the real harm was in knowledge not gained.
  - brimble 5y ago
    I've got decent insight into several local school districts. From less-close information I've picked up from around the country, our city doesn't seem to be an outlier. For both fully-remote and alternating-day in-person, if schools still failed kids, they'd have had to fail over half of most classes. Percentages of engaged-enough-to-be-OK kids in online schools tended to sit in the 10-20% range. It wasn't unusual for half or more of kids to effectively be absent for an entire semester. [EDIT] The alternating-day half-in-half-out in-person schedule kids, in the one district that I have insight into that did that for fall 2020/spring 2021, seemed to fare even worse than the online cohort, incidentally. > I’d like to see trends in standardized tests during this period as I think the real harm was in knowledge not gained. Any places that did them, they'll be awful, guaranteed. IIRC at least some states skipped them in Spring 2020 since it'd have been nearly impossible to proctor them and everyone knew they'd be "tainted" anyway. The main point of them is to compare year-over-year progress to see what needs to be adjusted and whether progress is being made, for which a during-remote-learning standardized test would be worthless, since you already know it'll be bad and why it's bad and won't be able to get any actionable info out of comparing it to prior or future years. It'll probably be another couple years before we have something like a new baseline and the tests start to be useful for their intended purpose again.
taylodl 5y ago
Here's the thing - my wife works for the school system, I have 3 kids, and I'm involved in kids activities. The "shutdown" happened in the Spring of 2020. In the Fall of 2020 all the sports leagues resumed as normal and all the kid activities resumed as normal. The schools were partially open and they went to fully open in the Spring of 2021. In total there were 3-4 months where the kids were "locked up" in their homes. I don't know where this narrative is coming from that kids have been "locked up" for the past two years, but they have not. At least not for the overwhelming majority of kids in the U.S. There have been cases where a school system makes headline news by cancelling in-person classes as the infection peaks in their area. These shutdowns have only been for 1-2 weeks. The kids are in school. The kids are doing activities. The kids are alright.
- burner556 5y ago
  Probably because the actions of communist districts like Los Angeles
- gilbetron 5y ago
  My son had a total of 6 days of in-person school for the '20-'21 school year. All after, in-person school activities were canceled the entire year. Almost all sports were canceled as well. The summer of 2020 all summer camps were canceled except for a handful of virtual camps. This past summer, there were a handful of camps available, fortunately. School is in person this school year, although there have been about 10 virtual days so far for his school, all have been in 2022 because of Omicron making staffing really tough. There are a handful of after school activities, but many are canceled. Sports are largely back to normal.
  - taylodl 5y ago
    That's awful - especially at the start of 2021 when we fully understood the vectors and how to manage the transmission of the virus. Summer Camps in 2020 really struggled with sick staff. Even camps that did open had to close due to high rates of infection. Summer 2021 was a completely different story thanks to the vaccine. It's been really frustrating to see the people clamoring for a return to normalcy are taking action to prolong that return to normalcy. Hope your son is doing okay.

GiorgioG 5y ago

You're wrong. Deeply wrong. There is no deep psychological damage. Children are not fragile snowflakes - they're adaptable, resilient little humans. That's why as a species we continue to thrive. Stop inventing new problems that don't exist - there's already enough to go around.

adamcstephens 5y ago
Humans are social animals and we can most definitely have negative long term impacts from social issues at childhood.
kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 5y ago
My wife used to teach reading to elementary aged children with reading comprehension issues. And she found that you cannot teach children how to make letter sounds via Zoom. They cannot see, hear, and experience the inflections and mouth/tongue movements required. The result is these children don't learn how to read. And studies have shown for ages that if a child is not a proficient reader by grade 3, they will likely never be proficient, ever. That's just one of many costs. We're leaving these children behind.
pcmoney 5y ago
Have you talked to kids? Seen them? This has deeply and possibly irrevocably damaged many if not most of them.
- GiorgioG 5y ago
  Seeing as I have 2 kids and plenty of kids live in my neighborhood, none of them are walking around like damaged zombies - it's hard to take you seriously.
gilbetron 5y ago
They are resilient, my son will (probably) be fine - but that doesn't mean there wasn't damage done. I ask all his teachers what the effect has on the kids in comparison, and without an exception, they all point out that nearly all kids aren't as far along as they normally would be: emotionally, socially and academically. Most of them will mostly catch up. Some won't, and all will have an imprint of the pandemic on them in many ways. Minimizing this does nothing for them. And remember, a depressed kid doesn't always look sad, but can seem happy go lucky as they are trying to be what their parents want them to be.

ern 5y ago

There is deep psychological damage to kids who sat alone, by themselves for the past year. My kids and their friends repurposed their remote learning tools (MS Teams) and have had more creative interaction with their peers than they would have had otherwise (it's always been a pain organizing real-world play-dates). I'm surprised that this wasn't a more widespread experience.

prepend 5y ago
My kids didn’t. What’s your point? It’s hard to measure this systematically and I’m glad that your experiences were positive. My kids had marked drop in grades and really suffered. It wasn’t so much the social aspect as teachers and schools not being to adapt to new methods. I’d like to see trends in standardized tests during this period as I think the real harm was in knowledge not gained.
- brimble 5y ago
  I've got decent insight into several local school districts. From less-close information I've picked up from around the country, our city doesn't seem to be an outlier. For both fully-remote and alternating-day in-person, if schools still failed kids, they'd have had to fail over half of most classes. Percentages of engaged-enough-to-be-OK kids in online schools tended to sit in the 10-20% range. It wasn't unusual for half or more of kids to effectively be absent for an entire semester. [EDIT] The alternating-day half-in-half-out in-person schedule kids, in the one district that I have insight into that did that for fall 2020/spring 2021, seemed to fare even worse than the online cohort, incidentally. > I’d like to see trends in standardized tests during this period as I think the real harm was in knowledge not gained. Any places that did them, they'll be awful, guaranteed. IIRC at least some states skipped them in Spring 2020 since it'd have been nearly impossible to proctor them and everyone knew they'd be "tainted" anyway. The main point of them is to compare year-over-year progress to see what needs to be adjusted and whether progress is being made, for which a during-remote-learning standardized test would be worthless, since you already know it'll be bad and why it's bad and won't be able to get any actionable info out of comparing it to prior or future years. It'll probably be another couple years before we have something like a new baseline and the tests start to be useful for their intended purpose again.

taylodl 5y ago

Here's the thing - my wife works for the school system, I have 3 kids, and I'm involved in kids activities. The "shutdown" happened in the Spring of 2020. In the Fall of 2020 all the sports leagues resumed as normal and all the kid activities resumed as normal. The schools were partially open and they went to fully open in the Spring of 2021. In total there were 3-4 months where the kids were "locked up" in their homes. I don't know where this narrative is coming from that kids have been "locked up" for the past two years, but they have not. At least not for the overwhelming majority of kids in the U.S. There have been cases where a school system makes headline news by cancelling in-person classes as the infection peaks in their area. These shutdowns have only been for 1-2 weeks. The kids are in school. The kids are doing activities. The kids are alright.

burner556 5y ago
Probably because the actions of communist districts like Los Angeles
gilbetron 5y ago
My son had a total of 6 days of in-person school for the '20-'21 school year. All after, in-person school activities were canceled the entire year. Almost all sports were canceled as well. The summer of 2020 all summer camps were canceled except for a handful of virtual camps. This past summer, there were a handful of camps available, fortunately. School is in person this school year, although there have been about 10 virtual days so far for his school, all have been in 2022 because of Omicron making staffing really tough. There are a handful of after school activities, but many are canceled. Sports are largely back to normal.
- taylodl 5y ago
  That's awful - especially at the start of 2021 when we fully understood the vectors and how to manage the transmission of the virus. Summer Camps in 2020 really struggled with sick staff. Even camps that did open had to close due to high rates of infection. Summer 2021 was a completely different story thanks to the vaccine. It's been really frustrating to see the people clamoring for a return to normalcy are taking action to prolong that return to normalcy. Hope your son is doing okay.