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I agree. People find it normal to get an IDE for free, but when Apple released XCode for free, it was an innovation. (VB Basic/Pro, Borland, and all cost mone

I agree. People find it normal to get an IDE for free, but when Apple released XCode for free, it was an innovation. (VB Basic/Pro, Borland, and all cost money when they started). The only competitors were Eclipse, and VI/VIM and other lightweight editors. But, even Eclipse, initially was part of the IBM premium enterprise tools, called Websphere. So, just like they released the iOS updates for free, and MacOS X for free, (in 2008-2009), Apple has been a true innovator in this space. Microsoft and Co were always chasing behind.

mrpippy 5y ago
Development tools for classic MacOS cost money too, since they were commercial software like anything else. Metrowerks CodeWarrior, Lightspeed/Symantec C/C++/Pascal, even Apple’s own Macintosh Programmers Workshop.
danachow 5y ago
Eclipse was free and open source from the beginning and predates Xcode. That it was derived from an even older commercial product doesn’t seem that relevant.
- tomnipotent 5y ago
  Eclipse was originally a rewrite of IBM VisualAge in Java.
  - danachow 5y ago
    And how is that relevant to whether it was a FOSS IDE project prior to Xcode.
    - tomnipotent 5y ago
      Everything about it was heavily influenced from the work done on an existing platform, and it was only greenfield in that it was built in Java. It would not have had the start it did if not for the closed-source proprietary product that preceded it.
      - danachow 5y ago
        And Xcode was based on the proprietary Project Builder - so again I don't see the point in making a distinction here.
vbezhenar 5y ago
KDevelop was released in 1999, rewritten (version 3) in 2001. XCode was released in 2003. Eclipse was around. Emacs and vim-based development environment were immensely popular. And Visual Studio was much better than Xcode (and probably still is). Yes, it was not free, but it was worth its money. I know guy who used Visual Studio to write code for Linux. Xcode is not even open source. Intellij is open source, Eclipse is open source, Visual Studio Code is open source. At this point they should just write VSCode plugin to edit storyboards and language server for objective c and swift. Xcode is beyond redemption.
- mrtesthah 5y ago
  Is there something in particular that Visual Studio does that Xcode can’t? I’m not seeing the benefits.
watersb 5y ago
Ironic shudder, as I just recalled that I paid $3000 for NeXTStep Developer in 1993. I was making exactly zero dollars as a developer at the time. Or, I suppose, negative-three-grand, actually... So another thing: all of the documentation (which is in need of some work). Books, web sites, Youtube channels, free tutorials... That stuff wasn't free in 1993, either.
pjmlp 5y ago
XCode wasn't free really, considering the hardware price. Mac price ~= PC + VS Professional

mrpippy 5y ago

Development tools for classic MacOS cost money too, since they were commercial software like anything else. Metrowerks CodeWarrior, Lightspeed/Symantec C/C++/Pascal, even Apple’s own Macintosh Programmers Workshop.

danachow 5y ago

Eclipse was free and open source from the beginning and predates Xcode. That it was derived from an even older commercial product doesn’t seem that relevant.

tomnipotent 5y ago
Eclipse was originally a rewrite of IBM VisualAge in Java.
- danachow 5y ago
  And how is that relevant to whether it was a FOSS IDE project prior to Xcode.
  - tomnipotent 5y ago
    Everything about it was heavily influenced from the work done on an existing platform, and it was only greenfield in that it was built in Java. It would not have had the start it did if not for the closed-source proprietary product that preceded it.
    - danachow 5y ago
      And Xcode was based on the proprietary Project Builder - so again I don't see the point in making a distinction here.

vbezhenar 5y ago

KDevelop was released in 1999, rewritten (version 3) in 2001. XCode was released in 2003. Eclipse was around. Emacs and vim-based development environment were immensely popular. And Visual Studio was much better than Xcode (and probably still is). Yes, it was not free, but it was worth its money. I know guy who used Visual Studio to write code for Linux. Xcode is not even open source. Intellij is open source, Eclipse is open source, Visual Studio Code is open source. At this point they should just write VSCode plugin to edit storyboards and language server for objective c and swift. Xcode is beyond redemption.

mrtesthah 5y ago
Is there something in particular that Visual Studio does that Xcode can’t? I’m not seeing the benefits.

watersb 5y ago

Ironic shudder, as I just recalled that I paid $3000 for NeXTStep Developer in 1993. I was making exactly zero dollars as a developer at the time. Or, I suppose, negative-three-grand, actually... So another thing: all of the documentation (which is in need of some work). Books, web sites, Youtube channels, free tutorials... That stuff wasn't free in 1993, either.

pjmlp 5y ago

XCode wasn't free really, considering the hardware price. Mac price ~= PC + VS Professional