8 ms·

Python 2.7 removed from macOS Monterey 12.3 beta

44 points by zdw 5y ago

alilleybrinker 5y ago
Calling it a “deprecation” when it’s been removed entirely seems like a misuse of the word.
- cosmiccatnap 5y ago
- torstenvl 5y ago
  From the release notes: "Python Deprecations: Python 2.7 was removed from macOS in this update. Developers should use Python 3 or an alternative language instead. (39795874)" What word, exactly, is being used dishonestly? Python 2 was removed from the default install because it is deprecated in favor of Python 3. There is nothing dishonest or unclear about that in the release notes. What word in that message do you regard as being "misused" in context?
rzz3 5y ago
Bye
upbeat_general 5y ago
These breaking changes are why macOS is becoming more and more frustrating to use. It’s pushed me away from Mac on the desktop but I’m still using a MacBook. I’ve run into so many issues trying to compile projects, those with little to no maintenance, and even many popular ones. If macOS support is advertised, it often only works on 2-3 generations prior to the current release. Ubuntu LTS works out of the box far more often. The fact that it was removed without justification (just “legacy”) and there’s no easy download tool (like there is for say rosetta) is very frustrating. Sure I can compile python2 myself, install w/macports and symlink, but I shouldn’t have to.
- _aavaa_ 5y ago
  Python 3.0 came out in 2008, python 2.7 was supposed to reach end of life in 2015, it was extended until 2020. It's now 2022. That's all the justification they need.
  - makecheck 5y ago
    In a way, sure; but shouldn’t this have been a “macOS 11.0” or “macOS 12.0” change? Slipping it into some minor update that many users will install without a second thought is not a reasonable thing. It could break software that people use, not realizing they depend on Python to use it.
    - _aavaa_ 5y ago
      I can see the argument. But I still think it's shifting the blame from the developers of this software that people use but which haven't bothered updating in over a decade. EDIT: For the past, I don't know how many versions of macOS, you'd get the following message when running python2: "WARNING: Python 2.7 is not recommended. This version is included in macOS for compatibility with legacy software. Future versions of macOS will not include Python 2.7."
      - upbeat_general 5y ago
        True, except that's only been since catalina which is from 2019. While I get that programs can't practically run on a new OS decades later, I don't think we should be okay with such a short lifespan as on macOS.
        _aavaa_ 5y ago
        But it isn't a short lifespan. Python 2 had it's original EOL in 2015. It's been 7 years since the date of the original EOL. Which is to say nothing about how much heads up they had before 2015.
    - sam_bristow 5y ago

44 points by zdw 5y ago

alilleybrinker 5y ago

Calling it a “deprecation” when it’s been removed entirely seems like a misuse of the word.

cosmiccatnap 5y ago
torstenvl 5y ago
From the release notes: "Python Deprecations: Python 2.7 was removed from macOS in this update. Developers should use Python 3 or an alternative language instead. (39795874)" What word, exactly, is being used dishonestly? Python 2 was removed from the default install because it is deprecated in favor of Python 3. There is nothing dishonest or unclear about that in the release notes. What word in that message do you regard as being "misused" in context?

rzz3 5y ago

Bye

upbeat_general 5y ago

These breaking changes are why macOS is becoming more and more frustrating to use. It’s pushed me away from Mac on the desktop but I’m still using a MacBook. I’ve run into so many issues trying to compile projects, those with little to no maintenance, and even many popular ones. If macOS support is advertised, it often only works on 2-3 generations prior to the current release. Ubuntu LTS works out of the box far more often. The fact that it was removed without justification (just “legacy”) and there’s no easy download tool (like there is for say rosetta) is very frustrating. Sure I can compile python2 myself, install w/macports and symlink, but I shouldn’t have to.

_aavaa_ 5y ago
Python 3.0 came out in 2008, python 2.7 was supposed to reach end of life in 2015, it was extended until 2020. It's now 2022. That's all the justification they need.
- makecheck 5y ago
  In a way, sure; but shouldn’t this have been a “macOS 11.0” or “macOS 12.0” change? Slipping it into some minor update that many users will install without a second thought is not a reasonable thing. It could break software that people use, not realizing they depend on Python to use it.
  - _aavaa_ 5y ago
    I can see the argument. But I still think it's shifting the blame from the developers of this software that people use but which haven't bothered updating in over a decade. EDIT: For the past, I don't know how many versions of macOS, you'd get the following message when running python2: "WARNING: Python 2.7 is not recommended. This version is included in macOS for compatibility with legacy software. Future versions of macOS will not include Python 2.7."
    - upbeat_general 5y ago
      True, except that's only been since catalina which is from 2019. While I get that programs can't practically run on a new OS decades later, I don't think we should be okay with such a short lifespan as on macOS.
      - _aavaa_ 5y ago
        But it isn't a short lifespan. Python 2 had it's original EOL in 2015. It's been 7 years since the date of the original EOL. Which is to say nothing about how much heads up they had before 2015.
  - sam_bristow 5y ago