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> Orwellian oppression is very visible Yes. > people work to fix it and eventually do. No? My understanding of Orwellian oppression is exactly that even tho

> Orwellian oppression is very visible Yes. > people work to fix it and eventually do. No? My understanding of Orwellian oppression is exactly that even though people are very aware that it exists, only a small minority of people care enough (or are personally harmed enough) to want to take actions change it. Just look at modern day China. All but the most naive are aware of things like censorship and surveillance. Most have first-hand interactions with both. People joke about it all the time (being "invited for tea" or such and such news was "harmonized" a.k.a. censored). Some of the language has evolved to be almost not that different from what was envisioned in Newspeak. And yet, the average person does not feel violated enough to actually do something about anything. It's much easier to just go with the flow and not do what the state doesn't like.

Clubber 5y ago
>And yet, the average person does not feel violated enough to actually do something about anything. It's much easier to just go with the flow and not do what the state doesn't like. The problem is it requires a lot of people to make a difference. A single person or a small group protesting gets thrown into a reeducation camp for 20 years (if they are lucky). That's one of the reasons mass surveillance is so nefarious; you can't start to plan a mass assembly/protest to address grievances without being noticed beforehand and thrown into a reeducation camp for 20 years (if you are lucky). You can't even talk about grievances with more than a few other people in a dark closet somewhere.
- jabbany 5y ago
  Right, and that was the point of the Orwellian dystopia. Even if a single person sees the dystopia for what it is, they cannot get the masses to act.
  - Clubber 5y ago
    It's even more insidious than that. Even if the masses see the dystopia for what it is, they can't come together to fight it, because surveillance will be watching their coordination efforts. In North Korea I suspect most everyone knows the propaganda is bullshit, but even a whisper of dissent will send the police knocking at your door. We aren't as bad as North Korea of course, but it sure smells similar.

Clubber 5y ago

>And yet, the average person does not feel violated enough to actually do something about anything. It's much easier to just go with the flow and not do what the state doesn't like. The problem is it requires a lot of people to make a difference. A single person or a small group protesting gets thrown into a reeducation camp for 20 years (if they are lucky). That's one of the reasons mass surveillance is so nefarious; you can't start to plan a mass assembly/protest to address grievances without being noticed beforehand and thrown into a reeducation camp for 20 years (if you are lucky). You can't even talk about grievances with more than a few other people in a dark closet somewhere.

jabbany 5y ago
Right, and that was the point of the Orwellian dystopia. Even if a single person sees the dystopia for what it is, they cannot get the masses to act.
- Clubber 5y ago
  It's even more insidious than that. Even if the masses see the dystopia for what it is, they can't come together to fight it, because surveillance will be watching their coordination efforts. In North Korea I suspect most everyone knows the propaganda is bullshit, but even a whisper of dissent will send the police knocking at your door. We aren't as bad as North Korea of course, but it sure smells similar.