6 ms·

No, Covid is low risk if you are vaccinated and elderly/at risk and extremely low risk if you are younger (vaccinated or not) It’s endemic. Its not going away.

No, Covid is low risk if you are vaccinated and elderly/at risk and extremely low risk if you are younger (vaccinated or not) It’s endemic. Its not going away. We are all going to get it. (Me: triple vaxxed, had covid 2x) Getting vaccinated is a personal heath decision (which I encourage) Time to move on.

a_shovel 5y ago
This plan would kill a large portion of immunocompromised people worldwide.
- Closi 5y ago
  Why are the only deaths we seem to care about those that are Covid related? If we are worried about killing people worldwide, far more people die of hunger-related causes each day, but we aren't rebuilding our entire society to save those people. But I can't see a reason why deaths from Covid are more of a tragedy than those we left to starve. Or take smoking for instance - more people die each year from smoking than have died from Covid, but we seem more willing to ban human contact than to ban cigarettes? Seems backwards to me (especially considering c10% of smoking related deaths are from secondhand smoke in the USA!). I know these might seem like a silly point, but why are we so focused on one single cause of death right now? We lock down our entire society to 'protect unvaccinated people worldwide', but then have continually cut foreign aid? IMO - I think we have totally lost the plot and lost sight of what is important, but that's just my view.
  - sleepybrett 5y ago
    Smoking, at least where I live is heavily taxed and regulated. You can't smoke in any building open to the public or place of employment, you can't smoke within 25ft of any entrance to any of those buildings either. Cigarettes are taxed to hell and back as well. I guess we could do that to the people unwilling to get vaxxinated. Tax them for their status and bar them from any building open to the public or place of employment.
    - pcmoney 5y ago
      Why would we bar them? Getting vaccinated does not stop you from getting Covid and it does not stop the spread of Covid. I could see a tax break for being vaccinated as a viable incentive.
    - pcmoney 5y ago
      So we bar them because they are making individual choices that don’t impact us and we want to control them because we are afraid/disagree with those choices?
      - sleepybrett 5y ago
        If they are spreading covid they are impacting us.
        Closi 5y ago
        If they are smoking they are impacting us - 10% if smoking deaths are from second hand smoke. I’m not really seeing the difference.
    - seanw444 5y ago
      It scares me to see this legitimately suggested on a site full of people whose opinions I normally respect.
    - scarygliders 5y ago
      Sure thing. We could get them to wear a yellow badge as well. /s
  - a_shovel 5y ago
    I do believe we should rebuild global society to prevent death from hunger. I don't know how to do that, but it's a thing we need to prioritize more. When I see people minimizing COVID, I wonder if they've somehow avoided seeing an excess death graph even once for the past year-and-a-half.
    - pcmoney 5y ago
      Not minimizing just doubtful continued lockdowns and restrictions will do much to the death graph at this point. We have vaccines, we have better therapies. Lets move on. Communism killed 20M people and we still flirt with that ideology.
    - Closi 5y ago
      > When I see people minimizing COVID, I wonder if they've somehow avoided seeing an excess death graph even once for the past year-and-a-half. In the UK where I am from, I’m not entirely sure you would come to that conclusion - you would probably find that the first two waves caused significant excess deaths but the impact of the last wave has been much lower (probably from a combination of multiple factors). Uk government data below, see “all persons” tab: https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiYmUwNmFhMjYtNGZhYS00NDk2LWFlMTAtOTg0OGNhNmFiNGM0IiwidCI6ImVlNGUxNDk5LTRhMzUtNGIyZS1hZDQ3LTVmM2NmOWRlODY2NiIsImMiOjh9 https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiYmUwNmFhMjYtNGZhYS00N... Looking at the (fairly low) excess deaths only tells half the story though - you also have to look at quality of living, which is undoubtedly lower in my view.
  - tagoregrtst 5y ago
    People are afraid to die, and some people will do anything to lower the risk (ironically, life is still 100% fatal). These people will get angry at you for something dangerous even if you don't endanger them! If you rode motorcycles you'd encounter this safety fascism attitude quite a bit. Ive had ppl flip out on me just for mentioning I disagree with helmet laws, even though I ride with 100% safety equipment 100% of the time.
- pcmoney 5y ago
  How? They can take whatever measures they need to keep themselves safe. I assume they are not going into restaurants now since the mask situation is just theater. Their unfortunate circumstances don’t mean they get to control others. If there was a concrete ask with end date that would be one thing but asking everyone else to live as if they are immunocompromised just because they are is not sustainable.
- tagoregrtst 5y ago
  Im not willing to build society around a theoretical risk for a very small population that is alive only because of artificial means. Writ large, its immoral failing Kant’s categorical imperative. Massive utilitarian fail (you got to count the lockdown suicides and others too!). Aesthetically gross (life glued indoors is not really living). Reasonable accommodations are fine, and necessary and can include: wearing a mask if a known immunocompromised person is present. Setting up free grocery delivery for them. Ambulatory health care. Locking down society is not reasonable.
  - a_shovel 5y ago
    When you remark that they're "alive only because of artificial means", are you implying that your judgement might be different if they were, say, healthy and athletic young adults? Are you proposing that additional suicides due to lockdowns are comparable to the number of deaths prevented by social distancing and stay-at-home orders? Also, why are you telling me this? Find a housebound person to tell that they're "not really living". Find an immunocompromised person to assure that it's fine if you never wear a mask except when they're nearby. (Don't do either of those things.)
    - tagoregrtst 5y ago
      No, my judegement wouldn't be different if a similar number of “healthy, athletic” were somehow pegged as high COVID risk (perhaps a genetic marker?). What forms my opinion are their small numbers. Its easy to cater to the exception, but exceptions make bad generalities. The “artificial” refers to point that immunocompromised people already (justly!) have greatly extended lives because society has expanded a lot of resources on research and development for their care. These people are our sisters and brothers and should be taken care of, and have been to a large extent (otherwise they’d be dead). They do have a claim to our assistance, and Ill gladly pay more taxes for better programs, but they don't have a claim to have society turned upside down on their behalf Lockdowns are not reasonable accommodation. “ Are you proposing that additional suicides due to lockdowns are comparable to the number of deaths prevented by social distancing and stay-at-home orders?” Your original point was about immunocompromised, a small group. I gave one example of people that are being killed by lockdowns. Add deferred cancer patients, etc. Anyway, today if you’re not immunocompromised and you’re still dying of COVID you probably made the choice not to get vaccinated. Which is fine, btw. “ Also, why are you telling me this? ” You want to lock me up in my room like a truant schoolboy. “ Find a housebound person to tell that they're "not really living".” They’d agree with the general sentiment. Certainly its harder to grasp at life’s meaning when your only companion is TV. My very independent 95 year old grandma who has been housebound for two years due to COVID is uncharacteristically depressed. Which is why instead of a pseudo-philosophical talk like we’re having she’d probably appreciate it more if I took her for a walk in the mountainside (alas, she lives 10 000 km away). Perhaps because I cant be there for my grandma, next week we’re planning on taking my housebound ex-neighbors for a trip outside the city. They’re very lovely but they’re too old to drive and housebound to a large extent. I’m sure they agree with me about lockdowns. “Find an immunocompromised person to assure that it's fine if you never wear a mask except when they're nearby.” Does telling a friend with a kidney transplant that my kid goes to school without a mask count?
sjg007 5y ago
Polio used to be endemic in the USA and now it has been eradicated.
- pcmoney 5y ago
  This is VERY different than polio/small pox. We have no chance with current medical tech of eliminating a highly mutagenic coronavirus. Even if we did the cost/benefit of doing so would not be adequate.
  - sjg007 5y ago
    Mutagenic describes a mutagen which is something that mutates DNA.
    - pcmoney 5y ago
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4934755/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4934755/
      - sjg007 5y ago
        Just look up what the words mean scientifically if you are going to use them. Hell even read the article you cite. Mutagenic describes a mutagen which causes mutagenesis. https://www.nature.com/subjects/mutagenesis https://www.nature.com/subjects/mutagenesis Covid19 is not mutagenic. However, it is highly and continually mutated.
- dahfizz 5y ago
  Yeah. It was eradicated by a vaccine that actually granted immunity.
- tagoregrtst 5y ago
  Polio doesn't require boosters every three months and a redesigned vaccine every 18 (as they’re developing now)

a_shovel 5y ago

This plan would kill a large portion of immunocompromised people worldwide.

Closi 5y ago
Why are the only deaths we seem to care about those that are Covid related? If we are worried about killing people worldwide, far more people die of hunger-related causes each day, but we aren't rebuilding our entire society to save those people. But I can't see a reason why deaths from Covid are more of a tragedy than those we left to starve. Or take smoking for instance - more people die each year from smoking than have died from Covid, but we seem more willing to ban human contact than to ban cigarettes? Seems backwards to me (especially considering c10% of smoking related deaths are from secondhand smoke in the USA!). I know these might seem like a silly point, but why are we so focused on one single cause of death right now? We lock down our entire society to 'protect unvaccinated people worldwide', but then have continually cut foreign aid? IMO - I think we have totally lost the plot and lost sight of what is important, but that's just my view.
- sleepybrett 5y ago
  Smoking, at least where I live is heavily taxed and regulated. You can't smoke in any building open to the public or place of employment, you can't smoke within 25ft of any entrance to any of those buildings either. Cigarettes are taxed to hell and back as well. I guess we could do that to the people unwilling to get vaxxinated. Tax them for their status and bar them from any building open to the public or place of employment.
  - pcmoney 5y ago
    Why would we bar them? Getting vaccinated does not stop you from getting Covid and it does not stop the spread of Covid. I could see a tax break for being vaccinated as a viable incentive.
  - pcmoney 5y ago
    So we bar them because they are making individual choices that don’t impact us and we want to control them because we are afraid/disagree with those choices?
    - sleepybrett 5y ago
      If they are spreading covid they are impacting us.
      - Closi 5y ago
        If they are smoking they are impacting us - 10% if smoking deaths are from second hand smoke. I’m not really seeing the difference.
  - seanw444 5y ago
    It scares me to see this legitimately suggested on a site full of people whose opinions I normally respect.
  - scarygliders 5y ago
    Sure thing. We could get them to wear a yellow badge as well. /s
- a_shovel 5y ago
  I do believe we should rebuild global society to prevent death from hunger. I don't know how to do that, but it's a thing we need to prioritize more. When I see people minimizing COVID, I wonder if they've somehow avoided seeing an excess death graph even once for the past year-and-a-half.
  - pcmoney 5y ago
    Not minimizing just doubtful continued lockdowns and restrictions will do much to the death graph at this point. We have vaccines, we have better therapies. Lets move on. Communism killed 20M people and we still flirt with that ideology.
  - Closi 5y ago
    > When I see people minimizing COVID, I wonder if they've somehow avoided seeing an excess death graph even once for the past year-and-a-half. In the UK where I am from, I’m not entirely sure you would come to that conclusion - you would probably find that the first two waves caused significant excess deaths but the impact of the last wave has been much lower (probably from a combination of multiple factors). Uk government data below, see “all persons” tab: https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiYmUwNmFhMjYtNGZhYS00NDk2LWFlMTAtOTg0OGNhNmFiNGM0IiwidCI6ImVlNGUxNDk5LTRhMzUtNGIyZS1hZDQ3LTVmM2NmOWRlODY2NiIsImMiOjh9 https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiYmUwNmFhMjYtNGZhYS00N... Looking at the (fairly low) excess deaths only tells half the story though - you also have to look at quality of living, which is undoubtedly lower in my view.
- tagoregrtst 5y ago
  People are afraid to die, and some people will do anything to lower the risk (ironically, life is still 100% fatal). These people will get angry at you for something dangerous even if you don't endanger them! If you rode motorcycles you'd encounter this safety fascism attitude quite a bit. Ive had ppl flip out on me just for mentioning I disagree with helmet laws, even though I ride with 100% safety equipment 100% of the time.
pcmoney 5y ago
How? They can take whatever measures they need to keep themselves safe. I assume they are not going into restaurants now since the mask situation is just theater. Their unfortunate circumstances don’t mean they get to control others. If there was a concrete ask with end date that would be one thing but asking everyone else to live as if they are immunocompromised just because they are is not sustainable.
tagoregrtst 5y ago
Im not willing to build society around a theoretical risk for a very small population that is alive only because of artificial means. Writ large, its immoral failing Kant’s categorical imperative. Massive utilitarian fail (you got to count the lockdown suicides and others too!). Aesthetically gross (life glued indoors is not really living). Reasonable accommodations are fine, and necessary and can include: wearing a mask if a known immunocompromised person is present. Setting up free grocery delivery for them. Ambulatory health care. Locking down society is not reasonable.
- a_shovel 5y ago
  When you remark that they're "alive only because of artificial means", are you implying that your judgement might be different if they were, say, healthy and athletic young adults? Are you proposing that additional suicides due to lockdowns are comparable to the number of deaths prevented by social distancing and stay-at-home orders? Also, why are you telling me this? Find a housebound person to tell that they're "not really living". Find an immunocompromised person to assure that it's fine if you never wear a mask except when they're nearby. (Don't do either of those things.)
  - tagoregrtst 5y ago
    No, my judegement wouldn't be different if a similar number of “healthy, athletic” were somehow pegged as high COVID risk (perhaps a genetic marker?). What forms my opinion are their small numbers. Its easy to cater to the exception, but exceptions make bad generalities. The “artificial” refers to point that immunocompromised people already (justly!) have greatly extended lives because society has expanded a lot of resources on research and development for their care. These people are our sisters and brothers and should be taken care of, and have been to a large extent (otherwise they’d be dead). They do have a claim to our assistance, and Ill gladly pay more taxes for better programs, but they don't have a claim to have society turned upside down on their behalf Lockdowns are not reasonable accommodation. “ Are you proposing that additional suicides due to lockdowns are comparable to the number of deaths prevented by social distancing and stay-at-home orders?” Your original point was about immunocompromised, a small group. I gave one example of people that are being killed by lockdowns. Add deferred cancer patients, etc. Anyway, today if you’re not immunocompromised and you’re still dying of COVID you probably made the choice not to get vaccinated. Which is fine, btw. “ Also, why are you telling me this? ” You want to lock me up in my room like a truant schoolboy. “ Find a housebound person to tell that they're "not really living".” They’d agree with the general sentiment. Certainly its harder to grasp at life’s meaning when your only companion is TV. My very independent 95 year old grandma who has been housebound for two years due to COVID is uncharacteristically depressed. Which is why instead of a pseudo-philosophical talk like we’re having she’d probably appreciate it more if I took her for a walk in the mountainside (alas, she lives 10 000 km away). Perhaps because I cant be there for my grandma, next week we’re planning on taking my housebound ex-neighbors for a trip outside the city. They’re very lovely but they’re too old to drive and housebound to a large extent. I’m sure they agree with me about lockdowns. “Find an immunocompromised person to assure that it's fine if you never wear a mask except when they're nearby.” Does telling a friend with a kidney transplant that my kid goes to school without a mask count?

sjg007 5y ago

Polio used to be endemic in the USA and now it has been eradicated.

pcmoney 5y ago
This is VERY different than polio/small pox. We have no chance with current medical tech of eliminating a highly mutagenic coronavirus. Even if we did the cost/benefit of doing so would not be adequate.
- sjg007 5y ago
  Mutagenic describes a mutagen which is something that mutates DNA.
  - pcmoney 5y ago
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4934755/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4934755/
    - sjg007 5y ago
      Just look up what the words mean scientifically if you are going to use them. Hell even read the article you cite. Mutagenic describes a mutagen which causes mutagenesis. https://www.nature.com/subjects/mutagenesis https://www.nature.com/subjects/mutagenesis Covid19 is not mutagenic. However, it is highly and continually mutated.
dahfizz 5y ago
Yeah. It was eradicated by a vaccine that actually granted immunity.
tagoregrtst 5y ago
Polio doesn't require boosters every three months and a redesigned vaccine every 18 (as they’re developing now)