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Children are safe from having debilitating symptoms due to COVID. I think it's worth being precise with language because the shorthand has been confusing for ma

by uoaei 5y ago

Children are safe from having debilitating symptoms due to COVID. I think it's worth being precise with language because the shorthand has been confusing for many people and used as a bludgeon in the reopening-schools-debate. But of course the real issue is children getting COVID from family, bringing it to school, spreading it to other kids who then give it to other parents. I have not seen analyses which attempt to quantify the effect of closing schools while taking this into account, but I'm sure they're out there.

TheCoelacanth 5y ago
Also spreading it to their teachers, who are usually adults and who usually don't want to get deadly diseases and may not be willing to work without some precautions going towards their safety.
- pcmoney 5y ago
  The virus is endemic, we are all going to get it sooner or later.
  - uoaei 5y ago
    No it is not and no we are not. You are advocating the sacrifice of lives which are not your own, which is unequivocally reprehensible.
    - pcmoney 5y ago
      It is endemic. Its everywhere. Its mutating. Humanity has never stopped the spread of similar coronaviruses and even if we could the death rate/risk is not bad enough to justify the cost (this isnt smallpox/polio) We have vaccines. They don’t stop you from getting it or transmitting it. They do lower probability of the vaccinated person getting severe/fatal covid. Clearly a personal health decision that should not be mandated (although I would encourage it) Mask are of marginal help. Mandates dont change actual behavior. Life goes on. (Me: triple vaxxed and have had Covid 2x)
      - uoaei 5y ago
        Not endemic. Will you accept a formal assessment of endemicity from a PI at the Vaccine and Infectious Disease Organization? See as of two weeks ago: https://twitter.com/angie_rasmussen/status/1480899954163863553 https://twitter.com/angie_rasmussen/status/14808999541638635... Not interested in playing word games. Words mean things. Get over it. > [Vaccines] don’t stop you from getting [COVID] or transmitting it. This is a harmful framing. What ultimately matters is Rt < 1. Do vaccines get us closer to that? Yes. Does not breathing on each other help with that? Yes. Does avoiding indoor gatherings prevent us from breathing on each other? Yes. Do masks and adequate ventilation help us reduce the amount of exposure when contact is unavoidable? Yes. Ergo each of these factors contributes to reducing the reproduction rate of the virus when applied. Wow, the power of simple logical deductions. Try it sometime. Deliberately obfuscating truths by painting a false dichotomy is misinformation. Life doesn't go on for the multitudes of preventable deaths that have occurred and will occur because people like you continue to push false narratives.
        mmmpop 5y ago
        > Words mean things. Get over it. Oh man, lemme tell you about the last time I used that one in an unrelated but equally controversial topic... I was browbeaten out of the room. "Words mean things (when that is convenient for my argument!)"
        the_only_law 5y ago
        > "Words mean things (when that is convenient for my argument!)" This sort of idea sums up modern politics, or the entire history of it for all I know.
        uoaei 5y ago
        Anecdata? Supporting your pre-supposed conclusions?? Color me convinced!
        pcmoney 5y ago
        Ok so now what? We lock down society for a relatively benign virus whose more extreme outcomes are mostly ameliorated by vaccines and therapies? I am all for you encouraging people to vaccinate but if they don’t then that is their choice. (Me: triple vaxxed and still got covid 2x) There a millions of preventable deaths of many kinds every year. Why is this cause special (now today, not with our previous situation in 2020) Also: An endemic disease is a disease that is always present in a particular population/region. Ex. Flu, malaria, HIV, syphilis, and… COVID (When they do declare this an endemic next month do I get a prize?) Additionally we have never eliminated a coronavirus before. This isn’t smallpox/polio.
    - pcmoney 5y ago
      If you don’t want to contract it feel free to make whatever personal decisions you think will prevent it. Don’t use your fear to control others and prevent them from making their own decisions.
      - uoaei 5y ago
        The problem with this argument is the slipperiness of the slope. So we shouldn't try to enforce gun laws either, eh? You're either going to have to be more specific, or concede that we live in a society where individual actions have consequences that influence others.
        pcmoney 5y ago
        We have vaccines, but they dont stop transmission or contagion. If they did, a vaccine mandate to protect others would make sense. However, since they dont getting/not getting the vaccine mostly impacts the individual it is odd that we have vaccine mandates.
        alternatetwo 5y ago
        Vaccines make symptoms happen earlier, so you can isolate earlier. That impacts other people.
        pcmoney 5y ago
        I am not sure this has been proven but assuming it is true would you be comfortable with taking this kind of marginal benefit as justification for mandates along the lines of “get the vaccination or you are fired?” What about in other areas? Attending a protest is attending a spreading event which impacts others for example.
    - jimmyjazz14 5y ago
      I mean most experts agree that it is (or will be), soooo yeah you should probably accept that and figure out how to live your life accordingly, maybe just don't go into public policy making though.
      - uoaei 5y ago
        Curious which experts are "most" and which are not.
        jimmyjazz14 5y ago
        Fauci says COVID-19 won't go away like smallpox, but will more likely become endemic https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2022/01/18/1073802431/fauci-says-covid-19-wont-go-away-like-smallpox https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2022/0... Covid is here for good, scientists say. https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/is-covid-here-to-stay-endemic-rcna9559 https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/is-covid-here-t... Despite omicron, Covid-19 will become endemic. https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/22849891/omicron-pandemic-endemic https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/22849891/omicron-pandemic... Those are just a few from a quick google search

by uoaei 5y ago

TheCoelacanth 5y ago

Also spreading it to their teachers, who are usually adults and who usually don't want to get deadly diseases and may not be willing to work without some precautions going towards their safety.

pcmoney 5y ago
The virus is endemic, we are all going to get it sooner or later.
- uoaei 5y ago
  No it is not and no we are not. You are advocating the sacrifice of lives which are not your own, which is unequivocally reprehensible.
  - pcmoney 5y ago
    It is endemic. Its everywhere. Its mutating. Humanity has never stopped the spread of similar coronaviruses and even if we could the death rate/risk is not bad enough to justify the cost (this isnt smallpox/polio) We have vaccines. They don’t stop you from getting it or transmitting it. They do lower probability of the vaccinated person getting severe/fatal covid. Clearly a personal health decision that should not be mandated (although I would encourage it) Mask are of marginal help. Mandates dont change actual behavior. Life goes on. (Me: triple vaxxed and have had Covid 2x)
    - uoaei 5y ago
      Not endemic. Will you accept a formal assessment of endemicity from a PI at the Vaccine and Infectious Disease Organization? See as of two weeks ago: https://twitter.com/angie_rasmussen/status/1480899954163863553 https://twitter.com/angie_rasmussen/status/14808999541638635... Not interested in playing word games. Words mean things. Get over it. > [Vaccines] don’t stop you from getting [COVID] or transmitting it. This is a harmful framing. What ultimately matters is Rt < 1. Do vaccines get us closer to that? Yes. Does not breathing on each other help with that? Yes. Does avoiding indoor gatherings prevent us from breathing on each other? Yes. Do masks and adequate ventilation help us reduce the amount of exposure when contact is unavoidable? Yes. Ergo each of these factors contributes to reducing the reproduction rate of the virus when applied. Wow, the power of simple logical deductions. Try it sometime. Deliberately obfuscating truths by painting a false dichotomy is misinformation. Life doesn't go on for the multitudes of preventable deaths that have occurred and will occur because people like you continue to push false narratives.
      - mmmpop 5y ago
        > Words mean things. Get over it. Oh man, lemme tell you about the last time I used that one in an unrelated but equally controversial topic... I was browbeaten out of the room. "Words mean things (when that is convenient for my argument!)"
        the_only_law 5y ago
        > "Words mean things (when that is convenient for my argument!)" This sort of idea sums up modern politics, or the entire history of it for all I know.
        uoaei 5y ago
        Anecdata? Supporting your pre-supposed conclusions?? Color me convinced!
      - pcmoney 5y ago
        Ok so now what? We lock down society for a relatively benign virus whose more extreme outcomes are mostly ameliorated by vaccines and therapies? I am all for you encouraging people to vaccinate but if they don’t then that is their choice. (Me: triple vaxxed and still got covid 2x) There a millions of preventable deaths of many kinds every year. Why is this cause special (now today, not with our previous situation in 2020) Also: An endemic disease is a disease that is always present in a particular population/region. Ex. Flu, malaria, HIV, syphilis, and… COVID (When they do declare this an endemic next month do I get a prize?) Additionally we have never eliminated a coronavirus before. This isn’t smallpox/polio.
  - pcmoney 5y ago
    If you don’t want to contract it feel free to make whatever personal decisions you think will prevent it. Don’t use your fear to control others and prevent them from making their own decisions.
    - uoaei 5y ago
      The problem with this argument is the slipperiness of the slope. So we shouldn't try to enforce gun laws either, eh? You're either going to have to be more specific, or concede that we live in a society where individual actions have consequences that influence others.
      - pcmoney 5y ago
        We have vaccines, but they dont stop transmission or contagion. If they did, a vaccine mandate to protect others would make sense. However, since they dont getting/not getting the vaccine mostly impacts the individual it is odd that we have vaccine mandates.
        alternatetwo 5y ago
        Vaccines make symptoms happen earlier, so you can isolate earlier. That impacts other people.
        pcmoney 5y ago
        I am not sure this has been proven but assuming it is true would you be comfortable with taking this kind of marginal benefit as justification for mandates along the lines of “get the vaccination or you are fired?” What about in other areas? Attending a protest is attending a spreading event which impacts others for example.
  - jimmyjazz14 5y ago
    I mean most experts agree that it is (or will be), soooo yeah you should probably accept that and figure out how to live your life accordingly, maybe just don't go into public policy making though.
    - uoaei 5y ago
      Curious which experts are "most" and which are not.
      - jimmyjazz14 5y ago
        Fauci says COVID-19 won't go away like smallpox, but will more likely become endemic https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2022/01/18/1073802431/fauci-says-covid-19-wont-go-away-like-smallpox https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2022/0... Covid is here for good, scientists say. https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/is-covid-here-to-stay-endemic-rcna9559 https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/is-covid-here-t... Despite omicron, Covid-19 will become endemic. https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/22849891/omicron-pandemic-endemic https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/22849891/omicron-pandemic... Those are just a few from a quick google search