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I do not want to seek to diminish your very real belief that my issues are not real. But they are. My panic attacks in public started when I had to wear masks.

I do not want to seek to diminish your very real belief that my issues are not real. But they are. My panic attacks in public started when I had to wear masks. When I am anxious or stressed, my breathing shallows. When this happens and I am wearing a mask, i have even less airflow coming in. I have tested this by simply lowering my mask, and examining how much air enters my nasal cavity. It is a huge difference. Or, I should say, it makes a huge difference to my mental state, even if the change in oxygen is relatively small. My psychiatrist, therapist and gp all confirmed this. Frankly, you should trust people with these actual conditions. We are living it, you aren't.

mh- 5y ago
I wonder if the shallowed breathing is a physiological response that only some of us experience while wearing masks. It could explain why there are two very different experiences for people when masked. I fortunately don't experience panic attacks from wearing a mask, but I will consistently get a headache from wearing one. And it's the same-feeling kind of headache I get from being in another enclosed space without air circulation.
- hydrok9 5y ago
  It could be. To me it doesn't feel like there is a difference in the cadence of my breathing, after I put the mask on. I simply have less oxygen coming in. I probably should be breathing more deeply, all the time! Then perhaps the mask wouldn't make a noticeable difference. But after a lifetime of dealing with anxiety, I've learned to trust my body. My mind can lie to me when im anxious, but my body generally doesn't.
  - mh- 5y ago
    Yeah, this matches my experience as well. The air simply feels less.. airy. Like I can't get a deep enough breath. I'd love to understand the science behind it.
    - boilerupnc 5y ago
      "Polypropylene is a commonly used material for N95 type respirators. In order for small particles to get through a filter composed of interlaced layers of polypropylene fibers, they have to wind through a rather tortuous path and as a result would likely be trapped in the material." [0] [0] https://qcmask.com/pages/the-science-of-masks https://qcmask.com/pages/the-science-of-masks
  - Domenic_S 5y ago
    Not disagreeing with any of your comments about masks; but FWIW, as another person with a diagnosed & medicated anxiety disorder, your (our) body(ies) absolutely do lie to us. It's an inappropriate physiological response (fight/flight/etc) to stimuli. The panic response _is the lie_. It was that realization/training through therapy that helped make my disorder manageable, knowing that just because my body thinks it's in danger of dying doesn't mean it actually is.
    - hydrok9 5y ago
      >The panic response _is the lie_ You're right. I think I meant that examining my body's responses can give me a quicker realization of "something is wrong (meaning my anxiety is out-of-proportion)" than examining my mental processes can; because I can get trapped in that anxious loop of thinking about thinking, and worrying about worrying. So it doesn't "lie" to me, that way. But the only way to truly get over anxiety is like you say, you've got to realize that all of it is exaggerated and false, and you've got to just "let it go." It really does get easier. The pandemic has made it harder again and I resent it.
PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
I tried to explicitly state that I believe that your mental experiences are real and worthy of attention and care. > I should say, it makes a huge difference to my mental state, even if the change in oxygen is relatively small. This is the key point. The change in airflow and oxygen is extremely small. None of that means your mental state does not change when wearing a mask, but it is probably useful to understand that this is not due to a physiological process involving less oxygen/air. [ EDIT: one possible answer is change in the CO2 conditions and/or thermal conditions: e.g. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8450908/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8450908/ ] [ EDIT 2: I was wrong. Please see original comment + edit at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30104420 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30104420 ]
- hydrok9 5y ago
  The key point is that you are wrong. It is absolutely due to a physiological process. You are telling me that it is "all in my head," and that it is impossible that a cloth mask over my face restricts my airflow. I am telling you it isn't. >I tried to explicitly state that I believe that your mental experiences are real and worthy of attention and care. I appreciate that. But you should be aware that people with anxiety hear this all the time. "What you believe is true matters. And is important. Now, having said that..." it isn't helpful and not really all that respectful, really. I can tell you with 100% certainty that restricting my breathing gives me anxiety. Not the idea of it, but the actual act itself. And that I feel less air entering my body, and more anxiety, when I wear masks. Other people have said the exact same thing happens to them in this thread. It's your choice who to believe. Edit: saw your edit. Maybe it's not "oxygen," per se, and another chemical is to blame. That would be helpful, if I knew the exact mechanism! But unfortunately, not very useful in solving the mask/anxiety issue. I've opted just to get a shitty mask (in medical terms) that will suit me, for my health needs.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
    Please see my larger edit in my original comment at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30104420 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30104420 I was wrong.
cpeterso 5y ago
Have you tried using a plastic mask insert/bracket? I find them very helpful. It lifts the mask off my mouth and nose, so the mask doesn't feel as constricting and I no longer suck in cloth when I'm breathing harder.
- hydrok9 5y ago
  I'll try it! Thanks

mh- 5y ago

I wonder if the shallowed breathing is a physiological response that only some of us experience while wearing masks. It could explain why there are two very different experiences for people when masked. I fortunately don't experience panic attacks from wearing a mask, but I will consistently get a headache from wearing one. And it's the same-feeling kind of headache I get from being in another enclosed space without air circulation.

hydrok9 5y ago
It could be. To me it doesn't feel like there is a difference in the cadence of my breathing, after I put the mask on. I simply have less oxygen coming in. I probably should be breathing more deeply, all the time! Then perhaps the mask wouldn't make a noticeable difference. But after a lifetime of dealing with anxiety, I've learned to trust my body. My mind can lie to me when im anxious, but my body generally doesn't.
- mh- 5y ago
  Yeah, this matches my experience as well. The air simply feels less.. airy. Like I can't get a deep enough breath. I'd love to understand the science behind it.
  - boilerupnc 5y ago
    "Polypropylene is a commonly used material for N95 type respirators. In order for small particles to get through a filter composed of interlaced layers of polypropylene fibers, they have to wind through a rather tortuous path and as a result would likely be trapped in the material." [0] [0] https://qcmask.com/pages/the-science-of-masks https://qcmask.com/pages/the-science-of-masks
- Domenic_S 5y ago
  Not disagreeing with any of your comments about masks; but FWIW, as another person with a diagnosed & medicated anxiety disorder, your (our) body(ies) absolutely do lie to us. It's an inappropriate physiological response (fight/flight/etc) to stimuli. The panic response _is the lie_. It was that realization/training through therapy that helped make my disorder manageable, knowing that just because my body thinks it's in danger of dying doesn't mean it actually is.
  - hydrok9 5y ago
    >The panic response _is the lie_ You're right. I think I meant that examining my body's responses can give me a quicker realization of "something is wrong (meaning my anxiety is out-of-proportion)" than examining my mental processes can; because I can get trapped in that anxious loop of thinking about thinking, and worrying about worrying. So it doesn't "lie" to me, that way. But the only way to truly get over anxiety is like you say, you've got to realize that all of it is exaggerated and false, and you've got to just "let it go." It really does get easier. The pandemic has made it harder again and I resent it.

PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago

I tried to explicitly state that I believe that your mental experiences are real and worthy of attention and care. > I should say, it makes a huge difference to my mental state, even if the change in oxygen is relatively small. This is the key point. The change in airflow and oxygen is extremely small. None of that means your mental state does not change when wearing a mask, but it is probably useful to understand that this is not due to a physiological process involving less oxygen/air. [ EDIT: one possible answer is change in the CO2 conditions and/or thermal conditions: e.g. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8450908/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8450908/ ] [ EDIT 2: I was wrong. Please see original comment + edit at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30104420 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30104420 ]

hydrok9 5y ago
The key point is that you are wrong. It is absolutely due to a physiological process. You are telling me that it is "all in my head," and that it is impossible that a cloth mask over my face restricts my airflow. I am telling you it isn't. >I tried to explicitly state that I believe that your mental experiences are real and worthy of attention and care. I appreciate that. But you should be aware that people with anxiety hear this all the time. "What you believe is true matters. And is important. Now, having said that..." it isn't helpful and not really all that respectful, really. I can tell you with 100% certainty that restricting my breathing gives me anxiety. Not the idea of it, but the actual act itself. And that I feel less air entering my body, and more anxiety, when I wear masks. Other people have said the exact same thing happens to them in this thread. It's your choice who to believe. Edit: saw your edit. Maybe it's not "oxygen," per se, and another chemical is to blame. That would be helpful, if I knew the exact mechanism! But unfortunately, not very useful in solving the mask/anxiety issue. I've opted just to get a shitty mask (in medical terms) that will suit me, for my health needs.
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
  Please see my larger edit in my original comment at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30104420 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30104420 I was wrong.

cpeterso 5y ago

Have you tried using a plastic mask insert/bracket? I find them very helpful. It lifts the mask off my mouth and nose, so the mask doesn't feel as constricting and I no longer suck in cloth when I'm breathing harder.

hydrok9 5y ago
I'll try it! Thanks