5 ms·

Ivermectin has widely been used in various countries. You can argue about the actual effectiveness, I think I remember a pre-print study being retracted. But t

Ivermectin has widely been used in various countries. You can argue about the actual effectiveness, I think I remember a pre-print study being retracted. But talking about that doesn't seem to be anywhere near the scale of dangerous public menace and should be banned.

micromacrofoot 5y ago
Rogan literally said "This doctor was saying ivermectin is 99 percent effective intreating Covid" to millions of millions of his listeners. You don't find that irresponsible?
- tptacek 5y ago
  It is plainly irresponsible, but if you frame it like this in a message board comment, you're practically baiting message board nerds into taking the opposing position for sport. This whole thread is pretty silly. I think the analogy between Rogan and Stern is weak, but that's all it is: a weak argument. Spinning off into 20 comments about whether Rogan is or isn't a crank isn't getting us anywhere.
  - micromacrofoot 5y ago
    I will have this argument as long as people insist Rogan's not a total crank. There are a lot of people that look to this guy for their worldview, which would be fine if it didn't occasionally skew into dangerous nonsense and outright denialism. People have been suing hospitals to get ivermectin treatments because of this nonsense.
    - tptacek 5y ago
      Then you will have this argument forever, because you've broadcasted to the whole world that you can be trivially wound up by people making self-evidently stupid arguments, and there's a pretty decent chunk of the population that finds doing that to be an incredibly potent source of dopamine.
      - micromacrofoot 5y ago
        I had to argue with my brother about Joe Rogan for about a year until he got vaccinated (before the pandemic it was arguing with him about not sending randos on the internet money for perpetual motion devices), so I'm used to it. A big part of spreading disinfo is badgering people until they give up, so I've already resigned myself to doing this forever.
        tptacek 5y ago
        Please keep in mind that you're not entitled to badger here; this isn't a venue for convincing people that you're right about things (for what it's worth: I'm well aware that you are right in this instance), but rather for having thoughtful conversations. Wikipedia has a good rule in Articles for Deletion debates, where they decide which articles to keep when people nominate them for deletion. They're not votes. You can get all your friends to chime in with dumb comments saying "keep" or "delete" for stupid reasons, but the admin who evaluates the AfD debate is supposed to ignore the count of comments supporting any given argument, and just make a note of the diversity of those arguments, and then evaluate which set of arguments are stronger. You can spam an AfD with misinformation, but at least in theory it shouldn't work (in fact, you might be just as likely to piss off the admin and nudge them the other way). That's a good way to look at HN threads as well. If you have something interesting to say, say it, and then get out of the way; let the dumb comments be the noise, not yours. This is all very meta, I know, but this whole thread is so pointless that meta can only improve it.
        micromacrofoot 5y ago
        Oh sure, I'm not intending to badger anyone myself. But I'll humor anyone that wants to continue to talk without resorting to personal insults. Appreciate the guidance.
        throwawayl44 5y ago
        Your comment “Rogan literally said "This doctor was saying ivermectin is 99 percent effective intreating Covid" to millions of millions of his listeners.” was really valuable to me. Because it's so incredibly stupid that if one can string together a bunch of such comments from JR, it can actually persuade some people to not believe him. We have a type of Godman quack around here who spouts nonsense on TV. Some people string together all the outright nonsensy parts and make a single video, while referencing where they came from. Those are really helpful. Edit: also it's a problem with only some message boards. There are message boards where a comment such as 'raynier made will be outright dismissed. And they are also places where 'thoughtful conversations' happen. Also I don't think it's 'badgering' when you quote something incredibly stupid and dangerous JR said. Edit2: also there is an order of more people that just read comments than comment. A concrete comment of yours like the one I quoted above can really convince some people. It's a good thing.
- holbrad 5y ago
  I can't say I understand the full context, but not really. I listen to a few podcasts sometimes hosts get things wrong, sometimes really wrong. That's fine.
  - micromacrofoot 5y ago
    Sure, getting things wrong is how people learn. But Joe's still pushing a lot of nonsense that he's been proven wrong about time and time again.

micromacrofoot 5y ago

Rogan literally said "This doctor was saying ivermectin is 99 percent effective intreating Covid" to millions of millions of his listeners. You don't find that irresponsible?

tptacek 5y ago
It is plainly irresponsible, but if you frame it like this in a message board comment, you're practically baiting message board nerds into taking the opposing position for sport. This whole thread is pretty silly. I think the analogy between Rogan and Stern is weak, but that's all it is: a weak argument. Spinning off into 20 comments about whether Rogan is or isn't a crank isn't getting us anywhere.
- micromacrofoot 5y ago
  I will have this argument as long as people insist Rogan's not a total crank. There are a lot of people that look to this guy for their worldview, which would be fine if it didn't occasionally skew into dangerous nonsense and outright denialism. People have been suing hospitals to get ivermectin treatments because of this nonsense.
  - tptacek 5y ago
    Then you will have this argument forever, because you've broadcasted to the whole world that you can be trivially wound up by people making self-evidently stupid arguments, and there's a pretty decent chunk of the population that finds doing that to be an incredibly potent source of dopamine.
    - micromacrofoot 5y ago
      I had to argue with my brother about Joe Rogan for about a year until he got vaccinated (before the pandemic it was arguing with him about not sending randos on the internet money for perpetual motion devices), so I'm used to it. A big part of spreading disinfo is badgering people until they give up, so I've already resigned myself to doing this forever.
      - tptacek 5y ago
        Please keep in mind that you're not entitled to badger here; this isn't a venue for convincing people that you're right about things (for what it's worth: I'm well aware that you are right in this instance), but rather for having thoughtful conversations. Wikipedia has a good rule in Articles for Deletion debates, where they decide which articles to keep when people nominate them for deletion. They're not votes. You can get all your friends to chime in with dumb comments saying "keep" or "delete" for stupid reasons, but the admin who evaluates the AfD debate is supposed to ignore the count of comments supporting any given argument, and just make a note of the diversity of those arguments, and then evaluate which set of arguments are stronger. You can spam an AfD with misinformation, but at least in theory it shouldn't work (in fact, you might be just as likely to piss off the admin and nudge them the other way). That's a good way to look at HN threads as well. If you have something interesting to say, say it, and then get out of the way; let the dumb comments be the noise, not yours. This is all very meta, I know, but this whole thread is so pointless that meta can only improve it.
        micromacrofoot 5y ago
        Oh sure, I'm not intending to badger anyone myself. But I'll humor anyone that wants to continue to talk without resorting to personal insults. Appreciate the guidance.
        throwawayl44 5y ago
        Your comment “Rogan literally said "This doctor was saying ivermectin is 99 percent effective intreating Covid" to millions of millions of his listeners.” was really valuable to me. Because it's so incredibly stupid that if one can string together a bunch of such comments from JR, it can actually persuade some people to not believe him. We have a type of Godman quack around here who spouts nonsense on TV. Some people string together all the outright nonsensy parts and make a single video, while referencing where they came from. Those are really helpful. Edit: also it's a problem with only some message boards. There are message boards where a comment such as 'raynier made will be outright dismissed. And they are also places where 'thoughtful conversations' happen. Also I don't think it's 'badgering' when you quote something incredibly stupid and dangerous JR said. Edit2: also there is an order of more people that just read comments than comment. A concrete comment of yours like the one I quoted above can really convince some people. It's a good thing.
holbrad 5y ago
I can't say I understand the full context, but not really. I listen to a few podcasts sometimes hosts get things wrong, sometimes really wrong. That's fine.
- micromacrofoot 5y ago
  Sure, getting things wrong is how people learn. But Joe's still pushing a lot of nonsense that he's been proven wrong about time and time again.