5 ms·

You're assuming that public organizations would run a more secure responsive network. My interactions with public institutions makes me doubt this assumption, e

by bko 5y ago

You're assuming that public organizations would run a more secure responsive network. My interactions with public institutions makes me doubt this assumption, especially for something as vast and complicated as facebook's network.

dylan604 5y ago
Exactly. Imagine your DMV experiences but applied to this. Then again, based on stories like this, private seems to be even worse. Even the DMV has human interaction possible after demoralizing wait times unlike shouting into blackholes that is FAANG support
- _jal 5y ago
  Tangent, but using the DMV as a horror-cliche anchor is very state-specific. I have experience with DMVs in six states. Five of those have always been perfectly fine, nothing to complain about. If I'm competent enough to get my paperwork right, it is just a 15 minute process. New York and California even take appointments, no waiting. I got my license way back when in Tennessee, and they were incompetent jerks, and that's because Tennessee's entrenched political class goes out of its way to make sure government services suck.
  - JJMcJ 5y ago
    California used to be bad, but the appointments have really helped. Also, the people who actually work at the DMV are pretty helpful, but they are way overworked. Once again, this is in California.
  - oauea 5y ago
    > Tangent, but using the DMV as a horror-cliche anchor is very state-specific. And very America-focused. Never had any issues at all with our local equivalent.
    - dylan604 5y ago
      assuming "our" is non-American, but non-American is a really large place. ;-) care to narrow it down?
  - technothrasher 5y ago
    The Massachusetts RMV used to be horrendous, but they've cleaned themselves up a lot. I've had little issue getting things done over the past decade or so. Now that they've instituted appointments because of covid, it's even quicker. I hope they never go back. The only thing that is still really broken is their phone system. It's so hard to get anybody on the phone, it's really not worth even trying.
- nopenopenopeno 5y ago
  The United States government, as well as the provincial state governments within it, are governed more by corporate boards than by the citizens who think they are participating in a democracy. This is not a secret. There is no such thing as a public institution in the United States.
- throwaway946513 5y ago
  Missouri resident here. DOR (Department of Revenue is also the DMV in Missouri) wait times while long recently, haven't been anywhere as terrible as everyone makes it out to be. Appointments are available (can truly only speak for my local office, which is in the largest city in the state) and my wait time never exceeded fifteen minutes. Additionally, to process said paperwork only took five minutes when I was at the counter. Each of the people at the DMV have been helpful for me when I got custom plates, titled a car, renewed my license, etc. Only one time did I have to make a trip home to get missing documentation due to extenuating circumstances.
- NikolaNovak 5y ago
  I love to doodoo on dmv / dot experience out of habit and cultural inertia, but in reality, my local Service Ontario is GREAT. Most of the time line ups are manageable; but most importantly, I get to talk to somebody who is obligated and typically willing to help me out and point me in right direction. Worst case scenario, I can come again and talk to another person. It is THAT final resort that's not even an option with so many large companies. Sure there are people who will t fall through cracks, legitimate horror stories, but at least there's an option and obligation and intent.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    I never said the human interaction part of the experience was bad. I specifically stated the wait times. Since everyone wants to share personal anecdotes, then in my neck of the woods in Texas, the state has moved from small regionally located DMV offices in favor of centralized extremely large megastore types of places that they push people to visit. Even when making an appointment online, you still wait an incredibly long amount of time in this massive incubator of a holding area. The last time I visited was before COVID, and I was already concerned about the petri dish level of experiment that was the waiting area. The DMV trope exists for reasons. Sadly, you may not be able to relate, but it doesn't diminish the validity for those that do. (sadly, here, being used ironically)
tluyben2 5y ago
But I can go to a desk and, talk to someone, and, eventually, possibly after a very long time, someone will act. With canned response AI private corps I don’t have this. Also, at least where I live, if you make more of a stink at the office of the public org in question, you get helped faster and often better.
- pchangr 5y ago
  Case in point: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30053549 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30053549
- bko 5y ago
  > But I can go to a desk and, talk to someone, and, eventually, possibly after a very long time, someone will act. Ever tried to get a pothole filled?
  - tluyben2 5y ago
    Yearly, after the winter rains. That is actually not very hard here.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
comrh 5y ago
You have legal recourse at least to file a FOIA request and force them to respond.
- scarface74 5y ago
  Until it gets held up by an administration that doesn’t want you to have the information and supported by judges appointed by the administration.
itsAtruism 5y ago
ygjb 5y ago
I will point out that in Canada, many of our telecoms were run by privately operated, publicly owned organizations (Crown Corporations) that operated at arms length. Until they were sold for pennies on the dollar by governments looking to score a quick win for "fiscal responsibility" and "small government", these organizations operated with a high degree of public scrutiny, and had the goal of offering low cost, reliable services. By most accounts the quality of service in relation to the price has been awful in most places in Canada, and the few places that still have Crown Corp delivered telecoms are among the happiest customers in that sector. This same scenario has played out across multiple sectors including oil & gas, electricity and hydroelectric services, and here in BC, transportation services (BC Ferries). Everyone likes to take a dump on public run services, but practically speaking, they have more oversight and accountability than privately run services.
- scarface74 5y ago
  So just imagine what happens when the government controls the communications. What happens when “they” get into power and start censoring and controlling communications that you don’t agree with? In this case “they” are the party with policies that you don’t agree with. There was a study in the US that the government fails to pass policies that 80%+ of the population agrees with. One easy example is making cannabis legal federally. People who vote Republican and Democrat both support it by an overwhelming majority. But it couldn’t pass.
  - ygjb 5y ago
    Some of us still live in functioning democracies. Also, it's worth pointing out that relying on privately owned or publicly traded corporations is not an effective strategy for preserving freedom; those businesses will only do that as long as they can justify it to their shareholders (private or public), and are subject to whatever laws apply in the jurisdictions they reside in (kind of the reason alot of 'western' companies prefer to either not do business, or conduct business via arms length entities in countries like Russia, China, and other places).
    - 5y ago
nkrisc 5y ago
Nothing is secure, so it’s not about that. It’s about accountability .
nopenopenopeno 5y ago
Public institutions governed by a democratic state not bought by private companies would absolutely do a better job. Realize we don’t have any public institutions in the United States. Our entire government works for multinational corporations, not the people living here.
- scarface74 5y ago
  There is nothing “democratic” about the US government. Between gerrymandering and the Constitutionally architected 2 Senators per state, the US is very much ruled by the minority.
  - mrguyorama 5y ago
    And yet when you need free money for elder or disabled care, you get to call my girlfriend and she has to personally walk you through managing the right documents and getting all the info you need to get literally thousands of tax funded dollars a month until you die. Where the fuck is facebook's phone number?
    - scarface74 5y ago
      Now try the same thing in a state that opposed the ACA or during the prior administration when it tried to purposefully cripple people accessing it. We saw the same thing with the consumer protection bureau when it was run by someone who supported payday loans during the last administration. I’m not trying to get overly political. But whether government “works” is completely dependent on which party is in charge and whether they champion parts of government that you need. Just to be fair, government didn’t work too well under the Democratic administration during the eviction moratorium for landlords. How much easier do you think it is to get a gun license in a red state or register to vote in a blue state?
  - nopenopenopeno 5y ago
    That was my point. Was that not clear?
hffftz 5y ago

by bko 5y ago

dylan604 5y ago

Exactly. Imagine your DMV experiences but applied to this. Then again, based on stories like this, private seems to be even worse. Even the DMV has human interaction possible after demoralizing wait times unlike shouting into blackholes that is FAANG support

_jal 5y ago
Tangent, but using the DMV as a horror-cliche anchor is very state-specific. I have experience with DMVs in six states. Five of those have always been perfectly fine, nothing to complain about. If I'm competent enough to get my paperwork right, it is just a 15 minute process. New York and California even take appointments, no waiting. I got my license way back when in Tennessee, and they were incompetent jerks, and that's because Tennessee's entrenched political class goes out of its way to make sure government services suck.
- JJMcJ 5y ago
  California used to be bad, but the appointments have really helped. Also, the people who actually work at the DMV are pretty helpful, but they are way overworked. Once again, this is in California.
- oauea 5y ago
  > Tangent, but using the DMV as a horror-cliche anchor is very state-specific. And very America-focused. Never had any issues at all with our local equivalent.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    assuming "our" is non-American, but non-American is a really large place. ;-) care to narrow it down?
- technothrasher 5y ago
  The Massachusetts RMV used to be horrendous, but they've cleaned themselves up a lot. I've had little issue getting things done over the past decade or so. Now that they've instituted appointments because of covid, it's even quicker. I hope they never go back. The only thing that is still really broken is their phone system. It's so hard to get anybody on the phone, it's really not worth even trying.
nopenopenopeno 5y ago
The United States government, as well as the provincial state governments within it, are governed more by corporate boards than by the citizens who think they are participating in a democracy. This is not a secret. There is no such thing as a public institution in the United States.
throwaway946513 5y ago
Missouri resident here. DOR (Department of Revenue is also the DMV in Missouri) wait times while long recently, haven't been anywhere as terrible as everyone makes it out to be. Appointments are available (can truly only speak for my local office, which is in the largest city in the state) and my wait time never exceeded fifteen minutes. Additionally, to process said paperwork only took five minutes when I was at the counter. Each of the people at the DMV have been helpful for me when I got custom plates, titled a car, renewed my license, etc. Only one time did I have to make a trip home to get missing documentation due to extenuating circumstances.
NikolaNovak 5y ago
I love to doodoo on dmv / dot experience out of habit and cultural inertia, but in reality, my local Service Ontario is GREAT. Most of the time line ups are manageable; but most importantly, I get to talk to somebody who is obligated and typically willing to help me out and point me in right direction. Worst case scenario, I can come again and talk to another person. It is THAT final resort that's not even an option with so many large companies. Sure there are people who will t fall through cracks, legitimate horror stories, but at least there's an option and obligation and intent.
- dylan604 5y ago
  I never said the human interaction part of the experience was bad. I specifically stated the wait times. Since everyone wants to share personal anecdotes, then in my neck of the woods in Texas, the state has moved from small regionally located DMV offices in favor of centralized extremely large megastore types of places that they push people to visit. Even when making an appointment online, you still wait an incredibly long amount of time in this massive incubator of a holding area. The last time I visited was before COVID, and I was already concerned about the petri dish level of experiment that was the waiting area. The DMV trope exists for reasons. Sadly, you may not be able to relate, but it doesn't diminish the validity for those that do. (sadly, here, being used ironically)

tluyben2 5y ago

But I can go to a desk and, talk to someone, and, eventually, possibly after a very long time, someone will act. With canned response AI private corps I don’t have this. Also, at least where I live, if you make more of a stink at the office of the public org in question, you get helped faster and often better.

pchangr 5y ago
Case in point: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30053549 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30053549
bko 5y ago
> But I can go to a desk and, talk to someone, and, eventually, possibly after a very long time, someone will act. Ever tried to get a pothole filled?
- tluyben2 5y ago
  Yearly, after the winter rains. That is actually not very hard here.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

comrh 5y ago

You have legal recourse at least to file a FOIA request and force them to respond.

scarface74 5y ago
Until it gets held up by an administration that doesn’t want you to have the information and supported by judges appointed by the administration.

itsAtruism 5y ago

ygjb 5y ago

I will point out that in Canada, many of our telecoms were run by privately operated, publicly owned organizations (Crown Corporations) that operated at arms length. Until they were sold for pennies on the dollar by governments looking to score a quick win for "fiscal responsibility" and "small government", these organizations operated with a high degree of public scrutiny, and had the goal of offering low cost, reliable services. By most accounts the quality of service in relation to the price has been awful in most places in Canada, and the few places that still have Crown Corp delivered telecoms are among the happiest customers in that sector. This same scenario has played out across multiple sectors including oil & gas, electricity and hydroelectric services, and here in BC, transportation services (BC Ferries). Everyone likes to take a dump on public run services, but practically speaking, they have more oversight and accountability than privately run services.

scarface74 5y ago
So just imagine what happens when the government controls the communications. What happens when “they” get into power and start censoring and controlling communications that you don’t agree with? In this case “they” are the party with policies that you don’t agree with. There was a study in the US that the government fails to pass policies that 80%+ of the population agrees with. One easy example is making cannabis legal federally. People who vote Republican and Democrat both support it by an overwhelming majority. But it couldn’t pass.
- ygjb 5y ago
  Some of us still live in functioning democracies. Also, it's worth pointing out that relying on privately owned or publicly traded corporations is not an effective strategy for preserving freedom; those businesses will only do that as long as they can justify it to their shareholders (private or public), and are subject to whatever laws apply in the jurisdictions they reside in (kind of the reason alot of 'western' companies prefer to either not do business, or conduct business via arms length entities in countries like Russia, China, and other places).
  - 5y ago

nkrisc 5y ago

Nothing is secure, so it’s not about that. It’s about accountability .

nopenopenopeno 5y ago

Public institutions governed by a democratic state not bought by private companies would absolutely do a better job. Realize we don’t have any public institutions in the United States. Our entire government works for multinational corporations, not the people living here.

scarface74 5y ago
There is nothing “democratic” about the US government. Between gerrymandering and the Constitutionally architected 2 Senators per state, the US is very much ruled by the minority.
- mrguyorama 5y ago
  And yet when you need free money for elder or disabled care, you get to call my girlfriend and she has to personally walk you through managing the right documents and getting all the info you need to get literally thousands of tax funded dollars a month until you die. Where the fuck is facebook's phone number?
  - scarface74 5y ago
    Now try the same thing in a state that opposed the ACA or during the prior administration when it tried to purposefully cripple people accessing it. We saw the same thing with the consumer protection bureau when it was run by someone who supported payday loans during the last administration. I’m not trying to get overly political. But whether government “works” is completely dependent on which party is in charge and whether they champion parts of government that you need. Just to be fair, government didn’t work too well under the Democratic administration during the eviction moratorium for landlords. How much easier do you think it is to get a gun license in a red state or register to vote in a blue state?
- nopenopenopeno 5y ago
  That was my point. Was that not clear?

hffftz 5y ago