4 ms·

Am I wrong when I say this type of opinion normally comes from infrastructure personal? I say that because I've never seen a standard so easy and seamless for a

Am I wrong when I say this type of opinion normally comes from infrastructure personal? I say that because I've never seen a standard so easy and seamless for a developer to get his code running.

nightpool 5y ago
Very seriously: Do yourself a favor and try out a real PaaS like Heroku sometime. Running a real, production-ready system on Heroku is truly as easy as "git push", and the concepts are way, way simpler to understand. It's not going to be the right fit for everybody, but as far as just pure devex goes, it's truly excellent.
- zerkten 5y ago
  People have mentioned here that a Heroku-like layer would be incompatible with k8s. Based on the description of k8s as a distributed OS, I don't understand how to reconcile these things. I'd want to deploy a k8s infrastructure, but have an easy experience on top for developers that might not maximize k8s use initially, but allow devs to move down a layer eventually. The whole time the ops folks would be running k8s and limited layer above that'd keep devs in a particular lane. Isn't this feasible?
  - q845712 5y ago
    I think several companies are trying to sell exactly that. if you look up VMWare's "TAP" offering it's attempting to provide a wide umbrella of components that move in that direction. Others in the space include Redhat, Replicated, Rancher. A few individual components that try to bring back the ease of rapid/easy deploys include: Flux, Tilt, Argo, kapp-controller. They all have slightly different priorities and make different compromises, but anyways just to assure you there's quite a few people trying to build and sell the layer you're describing.
Sebb767 5y ago
> I say that because I've never seen a standard so easy and seamless for a developer to get his code running. You deploy using extremely long YAML files, your app interacts with a lot of complex software (secret storage, ingress controller etc) and accessing your app for debugging is very non-straightforward. Once you understand the concepts and stack it's great, but when you're coming from locally running your app or even docker, it's as opaque as it gets. In my experience, it's actually worse for developers, because infra people are forced to learn k8s as direct part of their job, while for developers it's more of a sidenote.
- tardigr8 5y ago
  I agree it is a steep learning curve coming from docker only. But if you have to scale your app or other resources quickly and easily, I think k8s is the best of the bunch. I have found other solutions more difficult (docker swarm, paas platforms like heroku, a custom nginx and a lot of docker hosts etc..). If you don't need that easy scaling, then I don't think there is a need for k8s.
pjmlp 5y ago
Really? I miss WebSphere dearly when doing Kubernetes as developer.
The_Colonel 5y ago
> I've never seen a standard so easy and seamless for a developer to get his code running. Docker Compose is a breeze compared to Kubernetes.
0x445442 5y ago
> I say that because I've never seen a standard so easy and seamless for a developer to get his code running. "deploy war" was pretty damn easy.

Am I wrong when I say this type of opinion normally comes from infrastructure personal? I say that because I've never seen a standard so easy and seamless for a developer to get his code running.

nightpool 5y ago

Very seriously: Do yourself a favor and try out a real PaaS like Heroku sometime. Running a real, production-ready system on Heroku is truly as easy as "git push", and the concepts are way, way simpler to understand. It's not going to be the right fit for everybody, but as far as just pure devex goes, it's truly excellent.

zerkten 5y ago
People have mentioned here that a Heroku-like layer would be incompatible with k8s. Based on the description of k8s as a distributed OS, I don't understand how to reconcile these things. I'd want to deploy a k8s infrastructure, but have an easy experience on top for developers that might not maximize k8s use initially, but allow devs to move down a layer eventually. The whole time the ops folks would be running k8s and limited layer above that'd keep devs in a particular lane. Isn't this feasible?
- q845712 5y ago
  I think several companies are trying to sell exactly that. if you look up VMWare's "TAP" offering it's attempting to provide a wide umbrella of components that move in that direction. Others in the space include Redhat, Replicated, Rancher. A few individual components that try to bring back the ease of rapid/easy deploys include: Flux, Tilt, Argo, kapp-controller. They all have slightly different priorities and make different compromises, but anyways just to assure you there's quite a few people trying to build and sell the layer you're describing.

Sebb767 5y ago

> I say that because I've never seen a standard so easy and seamless for a developer to get his code running. You deploy using extremely long YAML files, your app interacts with a lot of complex software (secret storage, ingress controller etc) and accessing your app for debugging is very non-straightforward. Once you understand the concepts and stack it's great, but when you're coming from locally running your app or even docker, it's as opaque as it gets. In my experience, it's actually worse for developers, because infra people are forced to learn k8s as direct part of their job, while for developers it's more of a sidenote.

tardigr8 5y ago
I agree it is a steep learning curve coming from docker only. But if you have to scale your app or other resources quickly and easily, I think k8s is the best of the bunch. I have found other solutions more difficult (docker swarm, paas platforms like heroku, a custom nginx and a lot of docker hosts etc..). If you don't need that easy scaling, then I don't think there is a need for k8s.

pjmlp 5y ago

Really? I miss WebSphere dearly when doing Kubernetes as developer.

The_Colonel 5y ago

> I've never seen a standard so easy and seamless for a developer to get his code running. Docker Compose is a breeze compared to Kubernetes.

0x445442 5y ago

> I say that because I've never seen a standard so easy and seamless for a developer to get his code running. "deploy war" was pretty damn easy.