5 ms·

Startups are awash with capital at the moment, and remote is the rule rather than exception, as it was 3 years ago. Plenty of startups don't have leetcode-type

by yaseer 5y ago

Startups are awash with capital at the moment, and remote is the rule rather than exception, as it was 3 years ago. Plenty of startups don't have leetcode-type coding interviews in their culture, and the job market is such that $100k remote salaries are widespread. No, the leetcode grind is not necessary in this job market, particularly if you apply to startups rather than FAANGs.

Nextgrid 5y ago
In my experience in the UK, the average startup salary for a senior engineer is around 80k. Not disagreeing that they might be awash with capital, but they don't seem to be willing to share that capital. Edit: in my figure above that's 80k pounds but from my perspective it doesn't make a big difference for someone living here whose living costs would also be paid in pounds and the prices of most goods (in terms of the number, ignoring the currency) equivalent to the US when you'd expect it to be cheaper given the value of our currency being higher.
- tome 5y ago
  80k what? £80k is more than $100k. Or did you mean that the UK average is the GBP equivalent of $80k?
  - Nextgrid 5y ago
    I indeed meant £80k, but my argument is more around the purchasing power and lifestyle the money will give you. The currency doesn't really matter in that context as everything you buy will also be in pounds and the unit prices for most things (except specific industries like healthcare) don't seem that different and property prices are also through the roof. Taxes also seem extremely high. I'm not sure of the situation in the US but 80k£ here already lands you in upper end of the tax brackets despite the rent on a decent 1-bedroom Central London apartment being ~50% of your monthly take home.
    - yaseer 5y ago
      If you live in a large city, like London, yes. But for a remote job, you're no longer tied to doing that. There's obviously this phenomenon of high-salaried tech workers moving farther out of high cost of living places like London and San Francisco.
    - kragen 5y ago
      You can still retire to Costa Rica if you find a way to save a good percentage of that money. And, like everything else you import from China, a Creality CR-30 3DPrintMill costs the same in London as it does in San Francisco.
    - zelos 5y ago
      Not that it makes things better, but 80K doesn't put you in the highest tax bracket: you pay a higher marginal rate over £100k because you start to lose your personal allowance, plus there's a 45% rate at 150k+
      - Nextgrid 5y ago
        Fair enough, I wasn't aware it gets even worse, but the current level of tax at 80k£ already feels extremely unfair when it's barely enough to rent in Central London.
        arethuza 5y ago
        London is one of the most expensive cities in the world - plenty of much cheaper (and to me much nicer) cities in the UK.
        iso1631 5y ago
        £2,000 a month after rent and commuting costs (if you live in Central London you presumably walk or bike to work) is hardly "barely enough", as a single person. £80k is $108k. You get a net (before student loan deductions) of £55,092.76, you keep 69%. As a single person on $108k, you'd pay $31,779 in San Franciso in Federal, FICA and State tax, you keep 71% Whether the extra $1847 a year of taxes is "extremely unfair" is anyones guess, but at least you won't go bankrupt from medical costs.
- Hamuko 5y ago
  I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's much more expensive to hire an employee in the UK than in the US.
  - 0x737368 5y ago
    The real money is in the US - their wages dwarf UK's and Western Europe's programmers' salaries no matter how you look at it.
  - arethuza 5y ago
    I'd actually be pretty surprised if the fully loaded cost of an employee in the UK was higher than an equivalent in the US. Mind you - I'd love to see hard figures!
    - iso1631 5y ago
      In the UK on an £80k ($108k) salary an employer would have to pay 89,820.08 ($120222), plus pension contributions and the employee would receive £55,092.76 ($73740) In California someone paid $120k Gross I think would receive $79548, before healthcare deductions (optional private healthcare in the UK is typically about $700 a year for a single person of working age, in the US I believe premiums (employer and employee) are more like $7000 a year) Overall at the $120k range it seems a similar cost in the UK vs California. Office space in London is probably higher than in SF, but that doesn't apply for remote workers.
  - Nextgrid 5y ago
    I wonder why would that be or where would that extra money would be going given we're talking pre-tax figures.
    - mostlystatic 5y ago
      For one, UK employers would pay an additional £10k in Employers National Insurance on an £80k salary. https://listentotaxman.com/?year=2021&taxregion=uk&age=0&time=1&ingr=80000 https://listentotaxman.com/?year=2021&taxregion=uk&age=0&tim... (Partially answering your "why", not commenting on whether the original statement is true.)
- yaseer 5y ago
  I guess it depends on the stage, and funding level. Those that have raised a large seed round (e.g. YC companies), or Series A, $100K USD for a senior engineer is pretty common. Most of the remote jobs advertised here will be expecting that, including the UK companies: https://www.workatastartup.com/jobs/l/engineering https://www.workatastartup.com/jobs/l/engineering Disclosure: YC Company in London. Not hiring, but our peers are hiring with these kind of salaries in mind. Not happily mind you - employers never like it when the market favours job-seekers!
- Dave3of5 5y ago
  I suspect you mean that figure for a London Salary. Up here in the cold North there are few people who make that sort of money. I've worked at a company where the director(s) didn't make £80k.
  - iso1631 5y ago
    I'm reminded of this https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/features/how-to-be-poor-on-80000-a-year-20191202191331 https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/features/how-to-be-poor-on-80... Which appeared after someone came on Question Time complaining that £80k wasn't really that high

by yaseer 5y ago

Nextgrid 5y ago

In my experience in the UK, the average startup salary for a senior engineer is around 80k. Not disagreeing that they might be awash with capital, but they don't seem to be willing to share that capital. Edit: in my figure above that's 80k pounds but from my perspective it doesn't make a big difference for someone living here whose living costs would also be paid in pounds and the prices of most goods (in terms of the number, ignoring the currency) equivalent to the US when you'd expect it to be cheaper given the value of our currency being higher.

tome 5y ago
80k what? £80k is more than $100k. Or did you mean that the UK average is the GBP equivalent of $80k?
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  I indeed meant £80k, but my argument is more around the purchasing power and lifestyle the money will give you. The currency doesn't really matter in that context as everything you buy will also be in pounds and the unit prices for most things (except specific industries like healthcare) don't seem that different and property prices are also through the roof. Taxes also seem extremely high. I'm not sure of the situation in the US but 80k£ here already lands you in upper end of the tax brackets despite the rent on a decent 1-bedroom Central London apartment being ~50% of your monthly take home.
  - yaseer 5y ago
    If you live in a large city, like London, yes. But for a remote job, you're no longer tied to doing that. There's obviously this phenomenon of high-salaried tech workers moving farther out of high cost of living places like London and San Francisco.
  - kragen 5y ago
    You can still retire to Costa Rica if you find a way to save a good percentage of that money. And, like everything else you import from China, a Creality CR-30 3DPrintMill costs the same in London as it does in San Francisco.
  - zelos 5y ago
    Not that it makes things better, but 80K doesn't put you in the highest tax bracket: you pay a higher marginal rate over £100k because you start to lose your personal allowance, plus there's a 45% rate at 150k+
    - Nextgrid 5y ago
      Fair enough, I wasn't aware it gets even worse, but the current level of tax at 80k£ already feels extremely unfair when it's barely enough to rent in Central London.
      - arethuza 5y ago
        London is one of the most expensive cities in the world - plenty of much cheaper (and to me much nicer) cities in the UK.
      - iso1631 5y ago
        £2,000 a month after rent and commuting costs (if you live in Central London you presumably walk or bike to work) is hardly "barely enough", as a single person. £80k is $108k. You get a net (before student loan deductions) of £55,092.76, you keep 69%. As a single person on $108k, you'd pay $31,779 in San Franciso in Federal, FICA and State tax, you keep 71% Whether the extra $1847 a year of taxes is "extremely unfair" is anyones guess, but at least you won't go bankrupt from medical costs.
Hamuko 5y ago
I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's much more expensive to hire an employee in the UK than in the US.
- 0x737368 5y ago
  The real money is in the US - their wages dwarf UK's and Western Europe's programmers' salaries no matter how you look at it.
- arethuza 5y ago
  I'd actually be pretty surprised if the fully loaded cost of an employee in the UK was higher than an equivalent in the US. Mind you - I'd love to see hard figures!
  - iso1631 5y ago
    In the UK on an £80k ($108k) salary an employer would have to pay 89,820.08 ($120222), plus pension contributions and the employee would receive £55,092.76 ($73740) In California someone paid $120k Gross I think would receive $79548, before healthcare deductions (optional private healthcare in the UK is typically about $700 a year for a single person of working age, in the US I believe premiums (employer and employee) are more like $7000 a year) Overall at the $120k range it seems a similar cost in the UK vs California. Office space in London is probably higher than in SF, but that doesn't apply for remote workers.
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  I wonder why would that be or where would that extra money would be going given we're talking pre-tax figures.
  - mostlystatic 5y ago
    For one, UK employers would pay an additional £10k in Employers National Insurance on an £80k salary. https://listentotaxman.com/?year=2021&taxregion=uk&age=0&time=1&ingr=80000 https://listentotaxman.com/?year=2021&taxregion=uk&age=0&tim... (Partially answering your "why", not commenting on whether the original statement is true.)
yaseer 5y ago
I guess it depends on the stage, and funding level. Those that have raised a large seed round (e.g. YC companies), or Series A, $100K USD for a senior engineer is pretty common. Most of the remote jobs advertised here will be expecting that, including the UK companies: https://www.workatastartup.com/jobs/l/engineering https://www.workatastartup.com/jobs/l/engineering Disclosure: YC Company in London. Not hiring, but our peers are hiring with these kind of salaries in mind. Not happily mind you - employers never like it when the market favours job-seekers!
Dave3of5 5y ago
I suspect you mean that figure for a London Salary. Up here in the cold North there are few people who make that sort of money. I've worked at a company where the director(s) didn't make £80k.
- iso1631 5y ago
  I'm reminded of this https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/features/how-to-be-poor-on-80000-a-year-20191202191331 https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/features/how-to-be-poor-on-80... Which appeared after someone came on Question Time complaining that £80k wasn't really that high