3 ms·

100k$ is an achievable target without Leetcode. Freelancing/contracting will get you there. Frankly, contracting in London nets you 120k£ pre-tax easily, and co

100k$ is an achievable target without Leetcode. Freelancing/contracting will get you there. Frankly, contracting in London nets you 120k£ pre-tax easily, and contracting via a limited company means you can significantly reduce your tax exposure. Beyond that is a bit tricky. It's not impossible, and you can land a high-paying job at a startup or established non-tech company (established tech outside of FAANG is usually terrible pay-wise) through your network or recruiters, but the workload might be higher. The advantage of FAANG is that beyond the initial LeetCode grind and the relative mundaneness/uselessness of the work (are you really passionate about littering the world with even more advertising?), it being such a huge company means that once past the initial grind you can lay back and still enjoy a very good paycheck for lower effort than in a smaller company which actually produces useful output beyond advertising.

mcv 5y ago
I certainly recommend freelancing. It can take some time to get up to speed, but I'm currently making €95/hr on a long term project, which will probably be over €130k per year (for 32 hr per week). My rate might be the high end (I honestly don't know), but my sister who just started freelancing in test automation (which might be more in demand than developers?) is starting out at €75 or €85 per hour. €80 per hour for is not unusual at all. Of course as a freelancer you have to arrange your own insurance and miss out on lots of benefits that employees get automatically, but personally I think the trade-off is easily worth it. Though to me the real advantage of freelancing isn't financial, but freedom; I'm less bound by all sorts of company rules and restrictions. Although on the other hand, I'm more bound by the tax service. I think it's a good trade-off.
- hokumguru 5y ago
  Unsure about European prices but as a freelancer in the USA it's not unheard of to charge $120-150/hr
  - granshaw 5y ago
    Sure but even then it's low compared to being a senior at FAANG and publicly traded startups, no? (ie $300k+ annually when RSUs are factored in) Especially when you factor in the job risk and lack of PTO (even ignoring lack of health insurance cause in many cases your spouse can cover that) I personally would like to get to $175-$200 an hour as then it would truly be competitive with the above, but not sure how to get there
    - mcv 5y ago
      For that, I think you'd have to have a unique and highly in demand specialisation, and become widely known for it. Then you can basically ask whatever you want.
- lijogdfljk 5y ago
  Man, i feel like i'd be worried about droughts of jobs.Any advice on dealing with that stress? I take a lot of value out of standard jobs and stable companies.
  - mcv 5y ago
    It's always good to have a financial buffer, but I've never really needed it. Recruiters find me on LinkedIn and call or mail me. I generally blow them off or ignore them, unless I'm actively looking or they have something that catches my eye. I suppose I could do my own acquisition; cutting out the middle man would probably increase my hourly rate, but that's a lot of work I don't like, and this works well enough for me.
  - Nextgrid 5y ago
    It depends on the market and your skillset. You can test the market right now by polishing up your CV & profile (LinkedIn is actually a good source of leads), getting in touch with some recruiters and seeing if you can get some offers, and adjust your rates & risk tolerance based on this. At least in the UK, the contract market seems quite good for this early in the year, and usually peaks around summer. YMMV. It obviously depends on your situation and whether you have any responsibilities; my opinion would probably be different if I had a family, but in my case I have little to lose even if things go sour. I won't be able to do this forever so I make the most out of it while I can still afford the risk.
- xkgt 5y ago
  Does it take a certain non-technical aptitude to market oneself better? I think those who fear interviews may find this challenging as well.
vultour 5y ago
Yes, 120k is easy via contracting in London, however almost none of those contracts accept EU applicants even if the role is fully remote.
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  The main requirement is that you must have a UK-based limited company - I guess for clients this simplifies handling VAT/etc. Beyond that, it's up to you how you want to structure it and whether you are physically based there - the client doesn't get to see it and couldn't care less as long as the work is done.
  - vultour 5y ago
    Having a UK limited company when your tax residence isn't in the UK is quite complicated. I actually had a tax advisor strongly advise against doing that when I left the UK.
fergie 5y ago
Surely its more like £250k in London if you are in a full time contracting gig?
- wackro 5y ago
  Your rate would have to be over £1000 a day. Your typical rate is half that, i.e. the person you're replying to is bang on. The only person I heard of on a rate that high was someone doing automated trading stuff for one of the Rothschilds.
  - Nextgrid 5y ago
    To be fair it is possible, I occasionally see 1k/day rates but they require either niche skills, a significant amount of experience or just seem like a terrible idea that's guaranteed to fail and you'll take all the blame for it. In contrast, half that is doable for any mid-level developer and is still a major lifestyle upgrade compared to permanent employment.
    - sockpuppet69 5y ago
    - wackro 5y ago
      Regarding lifestyle, I think if it were objectively a lifestyle upgrade then everyone would seek to do it. I am a contractor myself, and see it as an upgrade, but I've come to realise a lot of people's lifestyles don't come from their work. Having to find new work multiple times a year, putting effort into keeping up with tech, doing bookkeeping etc is hassle most people can't be bothered with. Horses for courses. Edit:grammar
    - granshaw 5y ago
      Curious what you see as the "lifestyle upgrade" in the contracting route? Is it mainly in the comp (if so, see my comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30103313 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30103313), or something else?

mcv 5y ago

I certainly recommend freelancing. It can take some time to get up to speed, but I'm currently making €95/hr on a long term project, which will probably be over €130k per year (for 32 hr per week). My rate might be the high end (I honestly don't know), but my sister who just started freelancing in test automation (which might be more in demand than developers?) is starting out at €75 or €85 per hour. €80 per hour for is not unusual at all. Of course as a freelancer you have to arrange your own insurance and miss out on lots of benefits that employees get automatically, but personally I think the trade-off is easily worth it. Though to me the real advantage of freelancing isn't financial, but freedom; I'm less bound by all sorts of company rules and restrictions. Although on the other hand, I'm more bound by the tax service. I think it's a good trade-off.

hokumguru 5y ago
Unsure about European prices but as a freelancer in the USA it's not unheard of to charge $120-150/hr
- granshaw 5y ago
  Sure but even then it's low compared to being a senior at FAANG and publicly traded startups, no? (ie $300k+ annually when RSUs are factored in) Especially when you factor in the job risk and lack of PTO (even ignoring lack of health insurance cause in many cases your spouse can cover that) I personally would like to get to $175-$200 an hour as then it would truly be competitive with the above, but not sure how to get there
  - mcv 5y ago
    For that, I think you'd have to have a unique and highly in demand specialisation, and become widely known for it. Then you can basically ask whatever you want.
lijogdfljk 5y ago
Man, i feel like i'd be worried about droughts of jobs.Any advice on dealing with that stress? I take a lot of value out of standard jobs and stable companies.
- mcv 5y ago
  It's always good to have a financial buffer, but I've never really needed it. Recruiters find me on LinkedIn and call or mail me. I generally blow them off or ignore them, unless I'm actively looking or they have something that catches my eye. I suppose I could do my own acquisition; cutting out the middle man would probably increase my hourly rate, but that's a lot of work I don't like, and this works well enough for me.
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  It depends on the market and your skillset. You can test the market right now by polishing up your CV & profile (LinkedIn is actually a good source of leads), getting in touch with some recruiters and seeing if you can get some offers, and adjust your rates & risk tolerance based on this. At least in the UK, the contract market seems quite good for this early in the year, and usually peaks around summer. YMMV. It obviously depends on your situation and whether you have any responsibilities; my opinion would probably be different if I had a family, but in my case I have little to lose even if things go sour. I won't be able to do this forever so I make the most out of it while I can still afford the risk.
xkgt 5y ago
Does it take a certain non-technical aptitude to market oneself better? I think those who fear interviews may find this challenging as well.

vultour 5y ago

Yes, 120k is easy via contracting in London, however almost none of those contracts accept EU applicants even if the role is fully remote.

Nextgrid 5y ago
The main requirement is that you must have a UK-based limited company - I guess for clients this simplifies handling VAT/etc. Beyond that, it's up to you how you want to structure it and whether you are physically based there - the client doesn't get to see it and couldn't care less as long as the work is done.
- vultour 5y ago
  Having a UK limited company when your tax residence isn't in the UK is quite complicated. I actually had a tax advisor strongly advise against doing that when I left the UK.

fergie 5y ago

Surely its more like £250k in London if you are in a full time contracting gig?

wackro 5y ago
Your rate would have to be over £1000 a day. Your typical rate is half that, i.e. the person you're replying to is bang on. The only person I heard of on a rate that high was someone doing automated trading stuff for one of the Rothschilds.
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  To be fair it is possible, I occasionally see 1k/day rates but they require either niche skills, a significant amount of experience or just seem like a terrible idea that's guaranteed to fail and you'll take all the blame for it. In contrast, half that is doable for any mid-level developer and is still a major lifestyle upgrade compared to permanent employment.
  - sockpuppet69 5y ago
  - wackro 5y ago
    Regarding lifestyle, I think if it were objectively a lifestyle upgrade then everyone would seek to do it. I am a contractor myself, and see it as an upgrade, but I've come to realise a lot of people's lifestyles don't come from their work. Having to find new work multiple times a year, putting effort into keeping up with tech, doing bookkeeping etc is hassle most people can't be bothered with. Horses for courses. Edit:grammar
  - granshaw 5y ago
    Curious what you see as the "lifestyle upgrade" in the contracting route? Is it mainly in the comp (if so, see my comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30103313 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30103313), or something else?