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> For most typewriters, restoration is only a matter of taking the time to do it. There’s no complex skills or tools involved. Even the most difficult operation

by l0b0 5y ago

> For most typewriters, restoration is only a matter of taking the time to do it. There’s no complex skills or tools involved. Even the most difficult operations could be learned alone, by simple trial and error. What. Let's say an internal piece failed because of mechanical stress caused by lack of lubrication or a jammed foreign object. How do you figure out "by simple trial and error" which piece failed, why it failed, what the original piece was supposed to look like, and finally repair it, without expert knowledge and precision tools? At a wild guess I'd expect it'd take me a few years to do this reliably, using consumer-grade tools, from stock materials which are not already the exact right size in any dimension. > By contrast, we have to change our laptops every three or four years. Our phones every couple of years. And all other pieces of equipment (charger,router, modem,printers,…) need to be changed regularly. This is conflating "have to" in the sense that it's hard to get useful work done because software no longer runs optimally (or at all) on older hardware, and "have to" in the sense that it's literally broken. I don't "have to" change my laptop any more than someone in the 1950s "had to" change their typewriter for the latest model every few years. As a side note, a quick search through the article revealed no mention of why you'd want to do this. For fun, sure, but something like this is going to need a business case and lots of cash to be done properly.

corentin88 5y ago
> no mention of why you'd want to do this In the introduction, OP says: "Well, given how we use the resources of our planet, the question is not if we could or not. We need to do it, no matter what." I tend to believe he is right about that.
- l0b0 5y ago
  It would be interesting to see some actual calculations around this. It would have to take into account, for example, that we can do (some arbitrarily huge number) more calculations with N grams of rare materials than we could back in the day. If that trend continues for at least another while, investing in a 50-year computer is basically saying we have absolutely no need for that extra computing power.
zepto 5y ago
Agreed. My current Mac is 8 years old and is easily going to be useful for many more years. I think most people keep their phones for more than 2 years these days.
diffeomorphism 5y ago
> Why it failed. Out of scope. You just want to get it working again and don't care if you have to replace the same piece in another 5 years. Maybe that is not a "proper" repair, but you can do it yourself. > which piece failed Everything is large enough and mechanical failures are obvious enough that you see what is broken (maybe that part that is literally broken into pieces).
- l0b0 5y ago
  If you don't understand why it failed, you might do more damage with your repair, or you might have to replace it again in a week, rather than five years. As for being "obvious", I don't understand that sentiment. A broken piece pretty much by definition does not look the way it should, so unless you know the exact design of every piece by heart before starting the repair you're not going to automatically know what it's supposed to look like, in the general case.
  - diffeomorphism 5y ago
    > might ... general case.... Or it might not and we are talking about a very concrete case. The point is that everything is "large", low-tech and lots of stuff works the same. So replacement parts are fairly easy to get and easy to install. No soldering, no dexterity, no "exact design of every piece" required. Compare that to fixing a smartphone, where you might need special tools to even open the device.
drewzero1 5y ago
> How do you figure out "by simple trial and error" which piece failed, why it failed, what the original piece was supposed to look like, and finally repair it, without expert knowledge and precision tools? Agreed. Restoration of an already usable typewriter might be that simple, but if any of the 2000 parts is damaged or missing good luck finding or fabricating a replacement. (Also good luck finding a service manual!) I love typewriters, I use and collect them, and I've taken a few of them apart for maintenance or repair, and in my experience the mechanisms are too complex to suffer much trial and error without risking further damage. While reading I couldn't help but notice that the ForeverComputer sounds a lot like a TRS-80 (or indeed many personal computers of the late 70s-early 80s). A TRS-80 CoCo could, with some clever extensions and stretching of the rules, fulfill most of the listed requirements. Plus it's already 42 years old, so it only has 8 more to go!
adrianN 5y ago
Mechanical precision tooling is cheap enough nowadays that the hard part of producing a replacement piece is probably creating a CAD file for it. You can then ship the CAD file to some maker somewhere and have a replacement piece delivered to you for a reasonable fee. That's a lot harder to do with microchips.
coldtea 5y ago
>How do you figure out "by simple trial and error" which piece failed, why it failed, what the original piece was supposed to look like, and finally repair it, without expert knowledge and precision tools? For a typewriter? It's not even a challenge, 14 year olds have done bigger projects in their garages. And not even particularly bright 14 year olds - and not even today, with fast access to all kinds of information, schematics and such. Typewriters? Teenagers have been fixing electronic devices, building custom radios, amplifiers, circuits, and such for over 60 years - with "look at the shelves at Radio Shack" level of availability (and much worse in developing countries). I've fixed MIDI equipment on my own when I was 14, and I was hardly that bright or familiar with electronics and soldering guns, or had access to the (then non-existing) web. And to be frank, I've never bothered to delve into electronics even later (though I did had some engineering classes at uni). >At a wild guess I'd expect it'd take me a few years to do this reliably You overblow what should be a couple of weeks or a month at most, and that's for someone mechanics-inept.
- l0b0 5y ago
  Of course buying and swapping a part is something a teenager can do easily. I'm talking about making the parts myself, with consumer-level tools, because unless something like this gets an absolutely gigantic following or backing there's zero chance there'll be spare parts easily available in 10+ years, never mind 50.
  - coldtea 5y ago
    Most parts are trivial to make, and the tools required are in a million or so garages and amateur woodworking and mechanics "shops" across of the US. People make their own replacement hot rod and car parts for Pete's sake, now typewriter parts? It's not like a classic (non electric) typewriter is some wonder of engineering. You don't even need a circuit printed, or anything that has to be made in a factory. You can buy a dirt cheap 3D printer for some kind of replacement parts, bend, twist, or manually make a mold and poor metal into it for others, soldier or power glue for others yet, and so on... (And in regular life, you also have the option to salvage a similar model or even a different one with compatible parts and McGyever a solution trivially).

by l0b0 5y ago

corentin88 5y ago

> no mention of why you'd want to do this In the introduction, OP says: "Well, given how we use the resources of our planet, the question is not if we could or not. We need to do it, no matter what." I tend to believe he is right about that.

l0b0 5y ago
It would be interesting to see some actual calculations around this. It would have to take into account, for example, that we can do (some arbitrarily huge number) more calculations with N grams of rare materials than we could back in the day. If that trend continues for at least another while, investing in a 50-year computer is basically saying we have absolutely no need for that extra computing power.

zepto 5y ago

Agreed. My current Mac is 8 years old and is easily going to be useful for many more years. I think most people keep their phones for more than 2 years these days.

diffeomorphism 5y ago

> Why it failed. Out of scope. You just want to get it working again and don't care if you have to replace the same piece in another 5 years. Maybe that is not a "proper" repair, but you can do it yourself. > which piece failed Everything is large enough and mechanical failures are obvious enough that you see what is broken (maybe that part that is literally broken into pieces).

l0b0 5y ago
If you don't understand why it failed, you might do more damage with your repair, or you might have to replace it again in a week, rather than five years. As for being "obvious", I don't understand that sentiment. A broken piece pretty much by definition does not look the way it should, so unless you know the exact design of every piece by heart before starting the repair you're not going to automatically know what it's supposed to look like, in the general case.
- diffeomorphism 5y ago
  > might ... general case.... Or it might not and we are talking about a very concrete case. The point is that everything is "large", low-tech and lots of stuff works the same. So replacement parts are fairly easy to get and easy to install. No soldering, no dexterity, no "exact design of every piece" required. Compare that to fixing a smartphone, where you might need special tools to even open the device.

drewzero1 5y ago

> How do you figure out "by simple trial and error" which piece failed, why it failed, what the original piece was supposed to look like, and finally repair it, without expert knowledge and precision tools? Agreed. Restoration of an already usable typewriter might be that simple, but if any of the 2000 parts is damaged or missing good luck finding or fabricating a replacement. (Also good luck finding a service manual!) I love typewriters, I use and collect them, and I've taken a few of them apart for maintenance or repair, and in my experience the mechanisms are too complex to suffer much trial and error without risking further damage. While reading I couldn't help but notice that the ForeverComputer sounds a lot like a TRS-80 (or indeed many personal computers of the late 70s-early 80s). A TRS-80 CoCo could, with some clever extensions and stretching of the rules, fulfill most of the listed requirements. Plus it's already 42 years old, so it only has 8 more to go!

adrianN 5y ago

Mechanical precision tooling is cheap enough nowadays that the hard part of producing a replacement piece is probably creating a CAD file for it. You can then ship the CAD file to some maker somewhere and have a replacement piece delivered to you for a reasonable fee. That's a lot harder to do with microchips.

coldtea 5y ago

>How do you figure out "by simple trial and error" which piece failed, why it failed, what the original piece was supposed to look like, and finally repair it, without expert knowledge and precision tools? For a typewriter? It's not even a challenge, 14 year olds have done bigger projects in their garages. And not even particularly bright 14 year olds - and not even today, with fast access to all kinds of information, schematics and such. Typewriters? Teenagers have been fixing electronic devices, building custom radios, amplifiers, circuits, and such for over 60 years - with "look at the shelves at Radio Shack" level of availability (and much worse in developing countries). I've fixed MIDI equipment on my own when I was 14, and I was hardly that bright or familiar with electronics and soldering guns, or had access to the (then non-existing) web. And to be frank, I've never bothered to delve into electronics even later (though I did had some engineering classes at uni). >At a wild guess I'd expect it'd take me a few years to do this reliably You overblow what should be a couple of weeks or a month at most, and that's for someone mechanics-inept.

l0b0 5y ago
Of course buying and swapping a part is something a teenager can do easily. I'm talking about making the parts myself, with consumer-level tools, because unless something like this gets an absolutely gigantic following or backing there's zero chance there'll be spare parts easily available in 10+ years, never mind 50.
- coldtea 5y ago
  Most parts are trivial to make, and the tools required are in a million or so garages and amateur woodworking and mechanics "shops" across of the US. People make their own replacement hot rod and car parts for Pete's sake, now typewriter parts? It's not like a classic (non electric) typewriter is some wonder of engineering. You don't even need a circuit printed, or anything that has to be made in a factory. You can buy a dirt cheap 3D printer for some kind of replacement parts, bend, twist, or manually make a mold and poor metal into it for others, soldier or power glue for others yet, and so on... (And in regular life, you also have the option to salvage a similar model or even a different one with compatible parts and McGyever a solution trivially).