5 ms·

Can electrical circuits last 50 years?

by ultra_nick 5y ago

manpagereader 5y ago
theodric 5y ago
My functioning PDP-8 indicates they can
cpsns 5y ago
I have a TRS-80 from 1984 and it still works fine, that's pushing 40 years and I have zero doubt I'll still be able to use it in another ~10.
- zepto 5y ago
  What can it do?
  - ecliptik 5y ago
    A couple days ago there was a post [1] on using an Atari 800 in a modern setting which is a few years older than the TRS-80 [2], 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30033895 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30033895 2. https://www.auvik.com/franklyit/blog/atari-800-online/ https://www.auvik.com/franklyit/blog/atari-800-online/
    - zepto 5y ago
      That article is about an Atari 800XE which was far newer than a TRS-80 to begin and was then heavily modified with a 20x faster CPU and 20x the original RAM. Really that article has zero relevance to my question.
  - drewzero1 5y ago
    With the right peripherals, a lot. On my 1980 TRS-80 Color Computer I can write documents and save them to tape, print them, or send the text over serial to a modern computer. (It can also function as a serial terminal, but that's kind of cheating.) It boots to BASIC, no disks required (but can run a version of DOS if a drive is present). There's some early database/PIM software, home automation controllers, graphics tablets, and of course games. With full access to the serial and joystick ports, it's essentially able to function as a microcontroller, though I'll admit I mostly just use mine for writing, drawing, and games.
  - cpsns 5y ago
    Pretty much anything I program it to do, with obvious exceptions. I've replaced both floppy drives with floppy emulators, installed a FreHD "hard drive", and use an esp8266 based wireless modem* for access to the outside world. Is the machine practical? In a modern context probably not, but I can read the news, get the weather, type up documents, manage household stuff, chat, etc, plus I just enjoy programming it. It's a refreshing break from the modern computers I use 8 hours a day during my job. Programming on my Macbook feels like work, even after hours, programming on the 4P feels more like hobby programming. *Some would say this is cheating, but I'm not of that mindset.
progre 5y ago
Sure! Re-capping is a thing though. Vintage computer enthusiasts will sometimes desolder the old electrolythic capacitors in their machines and replace them with new ones. Apparently 70:ties and 80:ties era caps go bad after 40 years or so.
Findecanor 5y ago
If they had been designed to be, I think they can. In the case of the Commodore 64, which turns 40 this year, there are many that run fine today, but some early revisions have chips that were always prone to run hot. Also, the I/O chips could get damaged from using faulty or alien peripherals because the ports hadn't been designed to protect against them. My 30-year old Amiga 1200 had to get new capacitors last year but my five year older Amiga 500 didn't — because it had capacitors of higher quality in the first place. An important aspect for longevity is also to design to make parts replaceable: for repair or upgrade. Some people do use 40-50 year old IBM Beam-spring keyboards with their modern computers, but with a new circuit board that has a USB controller.

Can electrical circuits last 50 years?

manpagereader 5y ago

theodric 5y ago

My functioning PDP-8 indicates they can

cpsns 5y ago

I have a TRS-80 from 1984 and it still works fine, that's pushing 40 years and I have zero doubt I'll still be able to use it in another ~10.

zepto 5y ago
What can it do?
- ecliptik 5y ago
  A couple days ago there was a post [1] on using an Atari 800 in a modern setting which is a few years older than the TRS-80 [2], 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30033895 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30033895 2. https://www.auvik.com/franklyit/blog/atari-800-online/ https://www.auvik.com/franklyit/blog/atari-800-online/
  - zepto 5y ago
    That article is about an Atari 800XE which was far newer than a TRS-80 to begin and was then heavily modified with a 20x faster CPU and 20x the original RAM. Really that article has zero relevance to my question.
- drewzero1 5y ago
  With the right peripherals, a lot. On my 1980 TRS-80 Color Computer I can write documents and save them to tape, print them, or send the text over serial to a modern computer. (It can also function as a serial terminal, but that's kind of cheating.) It boots to BASIC, no disks required (but can run a version of DOS if a drive is present). There's some early database/PIM software, home automation controllers, graphics tablets, and of course games. With full access to the serial and joystick ports, it's essentially able to function as a microcontroller, though I'll admit I mostly just use mine for writing, drawing, and games.
- cpsns 5y ago
  Pretty much anything I program it to do, with obvious exceptions. I've replaced both floppy drives with floppy emulators, installed a FreHD "hard drive", and use an esp8266 based wireless modem* for access to the outside world. Is the machine practical? In a modern context probably not, but I can read the news, get the weather, type up documents, manage household stuff, chat, etc, plus I just enjoy programming it. It's a refreshing break from the modern computers I use 8 hours a day during my job. Programming on my Macbook feels like work, even after hours, programming on the 4P feels more like hobby programming. *Some would say this is cheating, but I'm not of that mindset.

progre 5y ago

Sure! Re-capping is a thing though. Vintage computer enthusiasts will sometimes desolder the old electrolythic capacitors in their machines and replace them with new ones. Apparently 70:ties and 80:ties era caps go bad after 40 years or so.

Findecanor 5y ago

If they had been designed to be, I think they can. In the case of the Commodore 64, which turns 40 this year, there are many that run fine today, but some early revisions have chips that were always prone to run hot. Also, the I/O chips could get damaged from using faulty or alien peripherals because the ports hadn't been designed to protect against them. My 30-year old Amiga 1200 had to get new capacitors last year but my five year older Amiga 500 didn't — because it had capacitors of higher quality in the first place. An important aspect for longevity is also to design to make parts replaceable: for repair or upgrade. Some people do use 40-50 year old IBM Beam-spring keyboards with their modern computers, but with a new circuit board that has a USB controller.