5 ms·

Same processor really just a yield thing.

WatchDog 5y ago
There are 3 M1 series chips, the M1, the M1 Pro, and the M1 Max. The M1 is a different die to the M1 Pro and M1 Max. I believe the Pro and Max are the same die binned differently as you alluded to.
- mehrdada 5y ago
  M1, M1 Pro, and M1 Max are all distinct dies, with M1 Max being quite a bit larger, with a larger cache, and more I/O compared to its M1 Pro sibling. The 24-core M1 Max, however, is a binned die of the 32-core M1 Max. There are lower core bins of M1 Pro that are only available on the cheaper 14-inch MacBook Pro. M1 is also available in two forms, one with a 7-core and the other with 8-core GPU.
  - marcan_42 5y ago
    Specifically, the M1 Max has twice the memory controllers, and each one comes with a cache block, and hence has twice the cache. It also has twice the GPU cores, an extra ProRes core, two extra display controller cores, an extra AVE (video encoder) block, an extra scaler block, an extra PMGR (power manager, including some PLLs and such) block and extra bus fabric branches to drive it all, and two things Apple won't talk about: an extra ANE (Neural Engine) (disabled on all shipping machines) and die-to-die interconnect. This is all in the lower chunk of the die, such that they could basically cut the design on the dotted line for the M1 Pro (not literally, but almost; they definitely didn't redo much if any P&R, as the shared portion is identical by all visual and logical appearances).
  - fred33 5y ago
    M1Max doesn’t have more I/O than M1Pro. All I/O blocs are localized on the top part of two dies. And as Hector said, M1Max is identical to M1Pro but with an bottom extension which provides more Ram interfaces, Caches, GPU, Média and Neural Engines, PLL and probably all the logic for a die to die connection. But this die-to-die area has been cutted on the Apple picture presented in keynote. I don’t think M1Pro has a such die-to-die logic, but I don’t see real picture of M1Pro die.
    - mehrdada 5y ago
      By "I/O" I am including memory bus, not merely devices.
- marcan_42 5y ago
  They are all different dies. However, the M1 Pro is just an M1 Max design with a chunk lopped off the bottom. Not at the manufacturing stage; at the design stage. They are otherwise identical; the device tree representation of the M1 Max is a superset of the M1 Pro, down to memory addresses and everything. Binning comes in with the lower-core-count variants of each chip.
  - mmmBacon 5y ago
    Again yield; not sure how many people understand how big yield would be even Apple. At some yield you can’t support the demand. None of what was written above makes a lot of sense unless Apples just burning fab cycles. They might be but I kind of doubt it since it would seriously impact device cost and would take up slots in the fab leading to longer lead times. Not even Apple can dictate all their chips to be P1 at TSMC. In actuality it’s much more likely that the difference is in metal connectivity for cores. For low core designs it’s likely the lower number of cores are yield fallout and they use an e-fuse to disable them. The metal difference would be faster and allow them to respond faster to changes in demand even while wafers are in the line. The cost of all these masks and skus would be a factor even for Apple because we aren’t talking about some old technology node here. They are on the bleeding edge and I’m sure they have capacity constraints just like everyone else.
    - marcan_42 5y ago
      I'm not guessing. They are different dies. There is no need to write a hypothetical wall of text and get it wrong; you can just look up die shots or chip package shots or device trees and know they're different dies. This information is well known. There's a massive difference in size and aspect ratio between all 3 dies. It would not be cost efficient to fab M1 Max dies and sell them as M1 Pro. The M1 Max is explicitly designed as a logical and layout superset of the M1 Pro, but not for binning purposes, just because that way they don't need to do two completely different layouts. SoC codes T8103 (M1), T6000 (M1 Pro), T6001 (M1 Max). Yes, they do use binning and e-fuses for the lower core count versions within each die/SoC type.
      - 5y ago

There are 3 M1 series chips, the M1, the M1 Pro, and the M1 Max. The M1 is a different die to the M1 Pro and M1 Max. I believe the Pro and Max are the same die binned differently as you alluded to.

mehrdada 5y ago
M1, M1 Pro, and M1 Max are all distinct dies, with M1 Max being quite a bit larger, with a larger cache, and more I/O compared to its M1 Pro sibling. The 24-core M1 Max, however, is a binned die of the 32-core M1 Max. There are lower core bins of M1 Pro that are only available on the cheaper 14-inch MacBook Pro. M1 is also available in two forms, one with a 7-core and the other with 8-core GPU.
- marcan_42 5y ago
  Specifically, the M1 Max has twice the memory controllers, and each one comes with a cache block, and hence has twice the cache. It also has twice the GPU cores, an extra ProRes core, two extra display controller cores, an extra AVE (video encoder) block, an extra scaler block, an extra PMGR (power manager, including some PLLs and such) block and extra bus fabric branches to drive it all, and two things Apple won't talk about: an extra ANE (Neural Engine) (disabled on all shipping machines) and die-to-die interconnect. This is all in the lower chunk of the die, such that they could basically cut the design on the dotted line for the M1 Pro (not literally, but almost; they definitely didn't redo much if any P&R, as the shared portion is identical by all visual and logical appearances).
- fred33 5y ago
  M1Max doesn’t have more I/O than M1Pro. All I/O blocs are localized on the top part of two dies. And as Hector said, M1Max is identical to M1Pro but with an bottom extension which provides more Ram interfaces, Caches, GPU, Média and Neural Engines, PLL and probably all the logic for a die to die connection. But this die-to-die area has been cutted on the Apple picture presented in keynote. I don’t think M1Pro has a such die-to-die logic, but I don’t see real picture of M1Pro die.
  - mehrdada 5y ago
    By "I/O" I am including memory bus, not merely devices.
marcan_42 5y ago
They are all different dies. However, the M1 Pro is just an M1 Max design with a chunk lopped off the bottom. Not at the manufacturing stage; at the design stage. They are otherwise identical; the device tree representation of the M1 Max is a superset of the M1 Pro, down to memory addresses and everything. Binning comes in with the lower-core-count variants of each chip.
- mmmBacon 5y ago
  Again yield; not sure how many people understand how big yield would be even Apple. At some yield you can’t support the demand. None of what was written above makes a lot of sense unless Apples just burning fab cycles. They might be but I kind of doubt it since it would seriously impact device cost and would take up slots in the fab leading to longer lead times. Not even Apple can dictate all their chips to be P1 at TSMC. In actuality it’s much more likely that the difference is in metal connectivity for cores. For low core designs it’s likely the lower number of cores are yield fallout and they use an e-fuse to disable them. The metal difference would be faster and allow them to respond faster to changes in demand even while wafers are in the line. The cost of all these masks and skus would be a factor even for Apple because we aren’t talking about some old technology node here. They are on the bleeding edge and I’m sure they have capacity constraints just like everyone else.
  - marcan_42 5y ago
    I'm not guessing. They are different dies. There is no need to write a hypothetical wall of text and get it wrong; you can just look up die shots or chip package shots or device trees and know they're different dies. This information is well known. There's a massive difference in size and aspect ratio between all 3 dies. It would not be cost efficient to fab M1 Max dies and sell them as M1 Pro. The M1 Max is explicitly designed as a logical and layout superset of the M1 Pro, but not for binning purposes, just because that way they don't need to do two completely different layouts. SoC codes T8103 (M1), T6000 (M1 Pro), T6001 (M1 Max). Yes, they do use binning and e-fuses for the lower core count versions within each die/SoC type.
    - 5y ago