4 ms·

I would argue the opposite, still using my 2012 15” MacBook Pro… a decade later. Go to Walmart and look at the laptops on display, and tell me any of those are

I would argue the opposite, still using my 2012 15” MacBook Pro… a decade later. Go to Walmart and look at the laptops on display, and tell me any of those are capable lasting near a decade.

addicted 5y ago
That’s not true of the current Macs though. I still have a 2011 era MacBook that I can use, and was very pleasant to use until an OS update a couple of years ago. But that was because I was able to upgrade the RAM, the SSD, and replace the battery. None of those things are possible with macs from the last few years, so their longevity is much more likely to resemble phones than older macs.
- BoorishBears 5y ago
  The secondary market simply doesn't agree with the weird obsession with calling Apple's hardware future e-waste just because you can't change out an SSD. Mac hardware holds value because it's well built, supported for a long time, has specs that are enough for a wide range of users... - For every power user running through battery cycles every day, there's people who just need a solid well built machine and won't feel the need to upgrade just because their machine gets less battery life, or a given IDE needs more RAM. Those people don't replace hardware because it's broken, they replace it because it feels old. Design wise, materials wise, etc. Not having crummy bloatware slowly accreting gigabytes of junk and a dozen extra startup items. Compare a sub $1000 M1 Air to any other sub $1000 laptop coming out today. You'd be incredibly hard pressed to find anything even half as well designed... that's how you get people to keep their hardware.
  - vbezhenar 5y ago
    I bought Dell 3410 for $600 and upgraded it for another $200 to 16 GB/500 GB SSD. It's a perfect little beast. Air with those specs will be around $2000 in my country.
- nkellenicki 5y ago
  I bought my 2013 MacBook Pro with a 1TB SSD and 32GB of RAM, with the highest specced i7 at the time. I sold it last month to pick up a new 2021 MacBook Pro M1 Max. I bought it with 32GB RAM and a 1TB SSD because I don't need anymore, 8 years later. And the i7 I had still beat out last years base model on Geekbench.
  - filmgirlcw 5y ago
    Not to take anything away from how long you got to use your computer, but you couldn’t get 32GB of RAM in an Apple laptop until 2018. You likely had 16GB of RAM in 2013 if you had a 15” retina MacBook Pro.
    - nkellenicki 5y ago
      You're correct, just checked my receipt, it was 16GB. I upped it to 32GB with my new laptop.
- washadjeffmad 5y ago
  I'm not arguing for or against, but we've hit a fairly stable period of diminishing returns on specs. We've solved the storage latency and throughout bottlenecks, scheduling, and CPU core counts, so we don't really need beaucoups of RAM for a functional laptop. RAM bandwidth doubles with each generation and throughout and latency improve, so less is needed for the same performance. Batteries are relatively inexpensive to replace through the vendor are improved in energy density, energy density, and cycles, so there's not a big advantage to buying aftermarket even though you can. For 2014-2016 Macs with flash storage, they're still pretty great to excellent machines. The greatest detriment to the longevity of 2017-2019 Macs is that they contain Intel components, and that every release of MacOS since High Sierra has been designed adversarial against their security flaws. Costco was practically giving away Intel iMacs recently, offering them almost half off. Also, I remember benchmarking on apfs post-mitigations and seeing up to a 40% performance loss on some syscalls, which translated to an unusable computer on dual core Intels or anything with mechanical storage. How would upgrading components have helped then?
  - Miraste 5y ago
    Apple is rather good at planned obsolescence. Intel handed them a few years of unusable machines on a platter (thanks Intel) but I’m sure they’ll find new reasons for MacOS updates to degrade performance on old machines regardless of hardware capability.
    - KennyBlanken 5y ago
      They lead the industry in how long they provide OS update support for phones/tablets and desktops/laptops. They downclock the CPU on mobile devices as the battery ages, to keep the CPU from browning out so you My system, made in 2013, won't be supported by the next OS release this coming fall, but they usually continue security updates at least one release behind. That's basically ten years of hardware support. Keep in mind that Windows 10 came out in 2015. A ton of manufacturers simply did not support windows 10 on hardware sold before it, because win10 coming out helps them move new PCs.
      - 5y ago
- ddingus 5y ago
  Still using a Note 8. This phone is awesome. I forget how many years... I would be OK with my M1 Air performing in a similar way.
  - KennyBlanken 5y ago
    This is a decent example of what folks are talking about in terms of supported lifespan. Your Note 8 was EOL'd in October 2021. It came out in September of 2017. That's four years of support. My iPhone came out around the same time and Apple is planning to support devices several generations older than mine with iOS 16...
    - ddingus 5y ago
      I am very likely to use this phone another three years. Just saying. Otherwise, yeah! My wife has an older iPhone still nicely supported, and older than my Note. My last Mac was a 2012 i7. I used it 6, 7 years? It is still useful, but got coke on keyboard! I fixed it myself last time. Not doing it again.
      - philistine 5y ago
        What if there is a debilitating security problem with Android within those three years? I wouldn't choose that kind of uncertainty.
        ddingus 5y ago
        Depends on how one uses the phone for starters. I may ditch it, I may not.
jeswin 5y ago
I used a 2011 Core i7 Asus N53SV till last year - full hd and had 4 ddr3 slots. I was able to run the latest Linux, and the latest Windows on it. Apple meanwhile has dropped support for 2014 macbooks. There are apps which won't run on them today, and Apple will stop supporting Catalina this year.
- imwillofficial 5y ago
  To act like your experience extrapolates out to the wider market is disingenuous at best.
febrianrendak 5y ago
hmmm thinkpad?

I would argue the opposite, still using my 2012 15” MacBook Pro… a decade later. Go to Walmart and look at the laptops on display, and tell me any of those are capable lasting near a decade.

addicted 5y ago

That’s not true of the current Macs though. I still have a 2011 era MacBook that I can use, and was very pleasant to use until an OS update a couple of years ago. But that was because I was able to upgrade the RAM, the SSD, and replace the battery. None of those things are possible with macs from the last few years, so their longevity is much more likely to resemble phones than older macs.

BoorishBears 5y ago
The secondary market simply doesn't agree with the weird obsession with calling Apple's hardware future e-waste just because you can't change out an SSD. Mac hardware holds value because it's well built, supported for a long time, has specs that are enough for a wide range of users... - For every power user running through battery cycles every day, there's people who just need a solid well built machine and won't feel the need to upgrade just because their machine gets less battery life, or a given IDE needs more RAM. Those people don't replace hardware because it's broken, they replace it because it feels old. Design wise, materials wise, etc. Not having crummy bloatware slowly accreting gigabytes of junk and a dozen extra startup items. Compare a sub $1000 M1 Air to any other sub $1000 laptop coming out today. You'd be incredibly hard pressed to find anything even half as well designed... that's how you get people to keep their hardware.
- vbezhenar 5y ago
  I bought Dell 3410 for $600 and upgraded it for another $200 to 16 GB/500 GB SSD. It's a perfect little beast. Air with those specs will be around $2000 in my country.
nkellenicki 5y ago
I bought my 2013 MacBook Pro with a 1TB SSD and 32GB of RAM, with the highest specced i7 at the time. I sold it last month to pick up a new 2021 MacBook Pro M1 Max. I bought it with 32GB RAM and a 1TB SSD because I don't need anymore, 8 years later. And the i7 I had still beat out last years base model on Geekbench.
- filmgirlcw 5y ago
  Not to take anything away from how long you got to use your computer, but you couldn’t get 32GB of RAM in an Apple laptop until 2018. You likely had 16GB of RAM in 2013 if you had a 15” retina MacBook Pro.
  - nkellenicki 5y ago
    You're correct, just checked my receipt, it was 16GB. I upped it to 32GB with my new laptop.
washadjeffmad 5y ago
I'm not arguing for or against, but we've hit a fairly stable period of diminishing returns on specs. We've solved the storage latency and throughout bottlenecks, scheduling, and CPU core counts, so we don't really need beaucoups of RAM for a functional laptop. RAM bandwidth doubles with each generation and throughout and latency improve, so less is needed for the same performance. Batteries are relatively inexpensive to replace through the vendor are improved in energy density, energy density, and cycles, so there's not a big advantage to buying aftermarket even though you can. For 2014-2016 Macs with flash storage, they're still pretty great to excellent machines. The greatest detriment to the longevity of 2017-2019 Macs is that they contain Intel components, and that every release of MacOS since High Sierra has been designed adversarial against their security flaws. Costco was practically giving away Intel iMacs recently, offering them almost half off. Also, I remember benchmarking on apfs post-mitigations and seeing up to a 40% performance loss on some syscalls, which translated to an unusable computer on dual core Intels or anything with mechanical storage. How would upgrading components have helped then?
- Miraste 5y ago
  Apple is rather good at planned obsolescence. Intel handed them a few years of unusable machines on a platter (thanks Intel) but I’m sure they’ll find new reasons for MacOS updates to degrade performance on old machines regardless of hardware capability.
  - KennyBlanken 5y ago
    They lead the industry in how long they provide OS update support for phones/tablets and desktops/laptops. They downclock the CPU on mobile devices as the battery ages, to keep the CPU from browning out so you My system, made in 2013, won't be supported by the next OS release this coming fall, but they usually continue security updates at least one release behind. That's basically ten years of hardware support. Keep in mind that Windows 10 came out in 2015. A ton of manufacturers simply did not support windows 10 on hardware sold before it, because win10 coming out helps them move new PCs.
    - 5y ago
ddingus 5y ago
Still using a Note 8. This phone is awesome. I forget how many years... I would be OK with my M1 Air performing in a similar way.
- KennyBlanken 5y ago
  This is a decent example of what folks are talking about in terms of supported lifespan. Your Note 8 was EOL'd in October 2021. It came out in September of 2017. That's four years of support. My iPhone came out around the same time and Apple is planning to support devices several generations older than mine with iOS 16...
  - ddingus 5y ago
    I am very likely to use this phone another three years. Just saying. Otherwise, yeah! My wife has an older iPhone still nicely supported, and older than my Note. My last Mac was a 2012 i7. I used it 6, 7 years? It is still useful, but got coke on keyboard! I fixed it myself last time. Not doing it again.
    - philistine 5y ago
      What if there is a debilitating security problem with Android within those three years? I wouldn't choose that kind of uncertainty.
      - ddingus 5y ago
        Depends on how one uses the phone for starters. I may ditch it, I may not.

jeswin 5y ago

I used a 2011 Core i7 Asus N53SV till last year - full hd and had 4 ddr3 slots. I was able to run the latest Linux, and the latest Windows on it. Apple meanwhile has dropped support for 2014 macbooks. There are apps which won't run on them today, and Apple will stop supporting Catalina this year.

imwillofficial 5y ago
To act like your experience extrapolates out to the wider market is disingenuous at best.

febrianrendak 5y ago

hmmm thinkpad?