5 ms·

We didn't have a large, loud faction of conspiracy theorist celebrities and politicians disseminating disinformation about public health in the middle of a pand

We didn't have a large, loud faction of conspiracy theorist celebrities and politicians disseminating disinformation about public health in the middle of a pandemic any time in the last 100 years either.

version_five 5y ago
There have always been boogeymen people used rhetorically. This is not any different
- fumar 5y ago
  Are you saying that boogeymen from 1950s have the same media reach as boogeymen in 2022? The medium and reach make a difference, no?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- breakyerself 5y ago
  Yes. Like the boogey man currently called cancel culture.CRT is another.
  - the_doctah 5y ago
    I'm sorry, are you trying to say cancel culture doesn't exist?
    - breakyerself 5y ago
      I'm sorry are you trying to say there aren't prominent conspiracy nutters spreading misinformation about the pandemic?
  - version_five 5y ago
    Those things certainly don't require that we break societal norms or use them as an excuse for taking any kind of extreme action. There are lots of ways to constructively disagree with things, my point is that we've strayed from those into new territory where complaining and outrage are the end and not the means
    - breakyerself 5y ago
      Theres actual government censorship being implemented as a response to the moral panic over CRT. I think your concerns are misplaced.
throwawaylinux 5y ago
I don't think the way to deal with people whose opinions we don't like is to pretend they don't exist and forbid those opinions to be discussed. I don't think that teaches children or society in general a healthy way to deal with different opinions including misinformation and form your own opinions. I also think the reaction shows or gives the appearance of fear, which itself gives undue power to them. Banning words and phrases and people like some nazi or communist police state makes people sit up and wonder why the regime is so terrified of words and in some ways marvel at their power (and don't give me the "private companies" line, we all know the corrupt government-corporate complex all work for one another).
- breakyerself 5y ago
  I would like to live in a society with a healthy disdain for purveyors of lies and misinformation. People like Neil Young standing against the BS on Rogans podcast is an example of free speech in action and civil society at work. The more the better. If you want to stand up against Orwellian police state BS look at the county in Tennessee that just banned the graphic novel Mause or the states passing laws banning teaching anything that might make white people feel guilty as a response to the BS moral panic that was whipped up around critical race theory.
  - throwawaylinux 5y ago
    > I would like to live in a society with a healthy disdain for purveyors of lies and misinformation. You say that like it's opposite what I said. My position is that I don't think censorship and banning of ideas and people is a healthy way to develop that disdain in society. > If you want to stand up against Orwellian police state BS look at the county in Tennessee that just banned the graphic novel Mause or the states passing laws banning teaching anything that might make white people feel guilty as a response to the BS moral panic that was whipped up around critical race theory. There's lots of things to "stand up against". Corporate censorship and other kinds of proxy attacks on anybody who questions certain narratives pushed by the ruling class is a big one even if you sometimes agree with the establishment. They don't have your interests at heart even if they coincidentally appear to align from time to time. One day it is be about vaccines, but another day it will be war with Iraq or intervention in Libya or conflict with China over Taiwan.
vorpalhex 5y ago
We have always had various false news, conspiracy theorists and outright disbelievers and angry mobs about pandemics, including 1918 [1][2]. None of what we have gone through is new in any meaningful way. [1] - https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/16/health/1918-flu-lessons-philadelphia-race-riots-wellness/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/16/health/1918-flu-lessons-p... [2] - https://www.history.com/news/1918-pandemic-spanish-flu-censorship https://www.history.com/news/1918-pandemic-spanish-flu-censo...
- breakyerself 5y ago
  I chose 100 years as a timeframe intentionally.
  - saagarjha 5y ago
    What’s the point, then? Why purposefully exclude the last pandemic of similar scale?
    - breakyerself 5y ago
      Because its outside of the lived experience of pretty much everyone alive right now. It's not the reaction to the disinformation thats special. Its the circumstances under which people are spreading disinformation that is special. These aren't JFK assassination conspiracy theories. Almost 2000 Americans died yesterday. A lot of them needlessly because a huge segment of society is treating reality as optional.
      - saagarjha 5y ago
        Oh I certainly agree with the effects, I just don’t think it’s worth excluding the last pandemic where similar things happened (even if it was a while ago). It just seems to be a perpetual problem and when there are consequences for that misinformation spreading we see bad results :(
      - xupybd 5y ago
        I think it's more than 2000. Many are dieing from over eating, over drinking, drug addictions, and other bad choices. It's just that we have gotten used to all the other reasons people die.

version_five 5y ago

There have always been boogeymen people used rhetorically. This is not any different

fumar 5y ago
Are you saying that boogeymen from 1950s have the same media reach as boogeymen in 2022? The medium and reach make a difference, no?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
breakyerself 5y ago
Yes. Like the boogey man currently called cancel culture.CRT is another.
- the_doctah 5y ago
  I'm sorry, are you trying to say cancel culture doesn't exist?
  - breakyerself 5y ago
    I'm sorry are you trying to say there aren't prominent conspiracy nutters spreading misinformation about the pandemic?
- version_five 5y ago
  Those things certainly don't require that we break societal norms or use them as an excuse for taking any kind of extreme action. There are lots of ways to constructively disagree with things, my point is that we've strayed from those into new territory where complaining and outrage are the end and not the means
  - breakyerself 5y ago
    Theres actual government censorship being implemented as a response to the moral panic over CRT. I think your concerns are misplaced.

throwawaylinux 5y ago

I don't think the way to deal with people whose opinions we don't like is to pretend they don't exist and forbid those opinions to be discussed. I don't think that teaches children or society in general a healthy way to deal with different opinions including misinformation and form your own opinions. I also think the reaction shows or gives the appearance of fear, which itself gives undue power to them. Banning words and phrases and people like some nazi or communist police state makes people sit up and wonder why the regime is so terrified of words and in some ways marvel at their power (and don't give me the "private companies" line, we all know the corrupt government-corporate complex all work for one another).

breakyerself 5y ago
I would like to live in a society with a healthy disdain for purveyors of lies and misinformation. People like Neil Young standing against the BS on Rogans podcast is an example of free speech in action and civil society at work. The more the better. If you want to stand up against Orwellian police state BS look at the county in Tennessee that just banned the graphic novel Mause or the states passing laws banning teaching anything that might make white people feel guilty as a response to the BS moral panic that was whipped up around critical race theory.
- throwawaylinux 5y ago
  > I would like to live in a society with a healthy disdain for purveyors of lies and misinformation. You say that like it's opposite what I said. My position is that I don't think censorship and banning of ideas and people is a healthy way to develop that disdain in society. > If you want to stand up against Orwellian police state BS look at the county in Tennessee that just banned the graphic novel Mause or the states passing laws banning teaching anything that might make white people feel guilty as a response to the BS moral panic that was whipped up around critical race theory. There's lots of things to "stand up against". Corporate censorship and other kinds of proxy attacks on anybody who questions certain narratives pushed by the ruling class is a big one even if you sometimes agree with the establishment. They don't have your interests at heart even if they coincidentally appear to align from time to time. One day it is be about vaccines, but another day it will be war with Iraq or intervention in Libya or conflict with China over Taiwan.

vorpalhex 5y ago

We have always had various false news, conspiracy theorists and outright disbelievers and angry mobs about pandemics, including 1918 [1][2]. None of what we have gone through is new in any meaningful way. [1] - https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/16/health/1918-flu-lessons-philadelphia-race-riots-wellness/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/16/health/1918-flu-lessons-p... [2] - https://www.history.com/news/1918-pandemic-spanish-flu-censorship https://www.history.com/news/1918-pandemic-spanish-flu-censo...

breakyerself 5y ago
I chose 100 years as a timeframe intentionally.
- saagarjha 5y ago
  What’s the point, then? Why purposefully exclude the last pandemic of similar scale?
  - breakyerself 5y ago
    Because its outside of the lived experience of pretty much everyone alive right now. It's not the reaction to the disinformation thats special. Its the circumstances under which people are spreading disinformation that is special. These aren't JFK assassination conspiracy theories. Almost 2000 Americans died yesterday. A lot of them needlessly because a huge segment of society is treating reality as optional.
    - saagarjha 5y ago
      Oh I certainly agree with the effects, I just don’t think it’s worth excluding the last pandemic where similar things happened (even if it was a while ago). It just seems to be a perpetual problem and when there are consequences for that misinformation spreading we see bad results :(
    - xupybd 5y ago
      I think it's more than 2000. Many are dieing from over eating, over drinking, drug addictions, and other bad choices. It's just that we have gotten used to all the other reasons people die.