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Again, a category error: You are failing to differentiate between the two subgroups of unvaccinated people, the previously infected/unvaccinated, and the purel

by JPKab 5y ago

Again, a category error: You are failing to differentiate between the two subgroups of unvaccinated people, the previously infected/unvaccinated, and the purely unvaccinated. Additionally, you are not doing any further subdivision on these two groups by age. The blanket "one size fits all" strategy you are advocating is assuming that all of these groups are at zero risk for adverse events from the vaccine. Young, healthy males have a statistically zero risk of severe COVID complications, and a statistically small but non-zero risk of myocarditis. The risk of myocarditis from the vaccine falls to practically zero as you progress upwards up the age distribution, which is the exact group of people who have the highest benefit from the vaccine. You are talking about a gradient which impacts both the cost and the benefit, with a diminishing cost and an increasing benefit going up in age. Not taking this into account is so illogical, that in my opinion, people who hold this view are clearly blinded by bias. If I'm going to get smeared as an "anti-vaxxer", I'm going to go ahead and use a label to describe humans who hold the rigid, data-resistant view that you possess: Immunity deniers

MatteoFrigo 5y ago
> Immunity deniers Let's not do this. When this mess is over we'll all want to work and break bread together again, and that's much more important than whatever any of us happened to believe or say in the fog of war.
- JPKab 5y ago
  You're right, labeling people is a terrible thing to do. I'm just at a breaking point now, after 2 years of having the most anxiety and risk-averse among us gleefully demonize, censor, and shame those of us with heterodox opinions. When you add to that the enthusiastic endorsement of forcing people like me to get a shot despite already having immunity solely to appease their paranoia, the bitterness has put me over the edge. Considering that it's the same crowd who has spent decades chanting "my body, my choice" and insisting that the government "never come between a person and their doctor", the hypocrisy adds to the outrage. I've been called a conspiracy theorist for pointing out the highly improbable chain of coincidences that made me doubt the narrative around the virus' origins, then had to watch as they all change their minds without an ounce of self-reflection or a single apology. On top of this, the national media has been completely, un-flinchingly on board with all of it, which is a distinguishing characteristic from the harassment and government intrusion upon LGBT folks championed by the political far right until the 2010s. They gave these anxiety driven tyrants full moral authority to violate my rights. I hope you can understand my bitterness. The last thing I want to do is dehumanize others. For the crime of not wanting to get NEEDLESSLY injected with a rushed, experimental genetic technology whose trials were entirely run by pharmaceutical companies who have a long history of overstating benefits and hiding risks for their products, I've been ostracized, condemned, and coerced by the same people who insist on not eating GMO produce.
  - bubbleRefuge 5y ago
    Enjoyed your posts and keep it coming. Just finished a few trips to Latin America. Kissed the ground when I got back here to Florida, where kids goto school, don't wear masks, and don't have to be vaccinated. Here, we respect individual liberties. We respect the right to go out and earn a living and put food on the table and if we lock everything down, at least uncle sam sends out checks to hold us over for a while. People are starving and dying in places like Venezuela, Cuba, and other countries in LA. Small business has been devastated by the un-ending lock downs. Unemployment is rampant. People cannot put food on the table. Its crazy. The lack of empathy that local governments have in LA for a persons right to earn a living is unconscionable. Maybe its because the virus has hit hard the wealthy elite ruling class since they tend to be rich, fat, white, and old. I dunno. But they are all wanting to break in to America and would if they could.
    - JPKab 5y ago
      That's really awful to hear regarding Latin America. How is Columbia doing? Do you have any insights there?
      - bubbleRefuge 5y ago
        Lots of columbians here in miami trying to make ends meat. I've met one famous soap actress who cleans houses here ( in Fl) and also a successful psycologist who is waiting on tables because of the economic malaise caused by forced business closures.
- bubbleRefuge 5y ago
  Politics is a contact sport.
jkhdigital 5y ago
> Young, healthy males have a statistically zero risk of severe COVID complications, and a statistically small but non-zero risk of myocarditis. Now imagine having a healthy 7-year old son, and having an excruciatingly difficult conversation with your spouse about why he shouldn’t get vaccinated. Or having to cut off ties with your mother-in-law, preventing your children from seeing their grandmother, because she thinks you are actively harming your own young children by not getting vaccinated despite having natural immunity. These people are destroying the very bonds of society.
- jjeaff 5y ago
  Regardless of how small the absolute risk, the risks of COVID are far higher than the risks of the vaccine, even for 7 year olds. So why are you choosing to die on that hill?
  - JPKab 5y ago
    Regarding 7 year olds, you are grossly misinformed, but that's not your fault. The US Federal government is continuing in it's grand tradition of doubling down on bad science to save face of bureaucrats who made bad policy decisions. For previous examples, see the thousands of studies by NIH to justify cannabis prohibition, USDA food pyramid, dragging feet on leaded gasoline for decades, etc. The rationale for vaccinating kids was to prevent them from spreading it. The vaccine did that effectively before Delta. With omicron, it's worthless for preventing spread. Kids are the one age group at higher risk from flu than covid. My two kids (8 and 15) aren't vaxxed. They caught omicron, and now they are in the ICU... Oh wait,no they are fine, had almost zero symptoms, and were playing outside the day they tested positive. Which is, statistically, a virtual certainty. They aren't morbidly obese or immunocompromised, so they shrugged it off. Nobody is dying on a hill. We're just better at statistics and aren't gullible enough to believe these panicked fools. Put an experimental product from Big Pharma in your kid for no reason. That's your call. But ask yourself why you suddenly trust the FDA, an organization that labeled oxycontin non addictive, approved Vioxx, approved remdesivir for covid despite it being useless, and that's just the past 15 years. Fear is the mind killer indeed.

by JPKab 5y ago

MatteoFrigo 5y ago

> Immunity deniers Let's not do this. When this mess is over we'll all want to work and break bread together again, and that's much more important than whatever any of us happened to believe or say in the fog of war.

JPKab 5y ago
You're right, labeling people is a terrible thing to do. I'm just at a breaking point now, after 2 years of having the most anxiety and risk-averse among us gleefully demonize, censor, and shame those of us with heterodox opinions. When you add to that the enthusiastic endorsement of forcing people like me to get a shot despite already having immunity solely to appease their paranoia, the bitterness has put me over the edge. Considering that it's the same crowd who has spent decades chanting "my body, my choice" and insisting that the government "never come between a person and their doctor", the hypocrisy adds to the outrage. I've been called a conspiracy theorist for pointing out the highly improbable chain of coincidences that made me doubt the narrative around the virus' origins, then had to watch as they all change their minds without an ounce of self-reflection or a single apology. On top of this, the national media has been completely, un-flinchingly on board with all of it, which is a distinguishing characteristic from the harassment and government intrusion upon LGBT folks championed by the political far right until the 2010s. They gave these anxiety driven tyrants full moral authority to violate my rights. I hope you can understand my bitterness. The last thing I want to do is dehumanize others. For the crime of not wanting to get NEEDLESSLY injected with a rushed, experimental genetic technology whose trials were entirely run by pharmaceutical companies who have a long history of overstating benefits and hiding risks for their products, I've been ostracized, condemned, and coerced by the same people who insist on not eating GMO produce.
- bubbleRefuge 5y ago
  Enjoyed your posts and keep it coming. Just finished a few trips to Latin America. Kissed the ground when I got back here to Florida, where kids goto school, don't wear masks, and don't have to be vaccinated. Here, we respect individual liberties. We respect the right to go out and earn a living and put food on the table and if we lock everything down, at least uncle sam sends out checks to hold us over for a while. People are starving and dying in places like Venezuela, Cuba, and other countries in LA. Small business has been devastated by the un-ending lock downs. Unemployment is rampant. People cannot put food on the table. Its crazy. The lack of empathy that local governments have in LA for a persons right to earn a living is unconscionable. Maybe its because the virus has hit hard the wealthy elite ruling class since they tend to be rich, fat, white, and old. I dunno. But they are all wanting to break in to America and would if they could.
  - JPKab 5y ago
    That's really awful to hear regarding Latin America. How is Columbia doing? Do you have any insights there?
    - bubbleRefuge 5y ago
      Lots of columbians here in miami trying to make ends meat. I've met one famous soap actress who cleans houses here ( in Fl) and also a successful psycologist who is waiting on tables because of the economic malaise caused by forced business closures.
bubbleRefuge 5y ago
Politics is a contact sport.

jkhdigital 5y ago

> Young, healthy males have a statistically zero risk of severe COVID complications, and a statistically small but non-zero risk of myocarditis. Now imagine having a healthy 7-year old son, and having an excruciatingly difficult conversation with your spouse about why he shouldn’t get vaccinated. Or having to cut off ties with your mother-in-law, preventing your children from seeing their grandmother, because she thinks you are actively harming your own young children by not getting vaccinated despite having natural immunity. These people are destroying the very bonds of society.

jjeaff 5y ago
Regardless of how small the absolute risk, the risks of COVID are far higher than the risks of the vaccine, even for 7 year olds. So why are you choosing to die on that hill?
- JPKab 5y ago
  Regarding 7 year olds, you are grossly misinformed, but that's not your fault. The US Federal government is continuing in it's grand tradition of doubling down on bad science to save face of bureaucrats who made bad policy decisions. For previous examples, see the thousands of studies by NIH to justify cannabis prohibition, USDA food pyramid, dragging feet on leaded gasoline for decades, etc. The rationale for vaccinating kids was to prevent them from spreading it. The vaccine did that effectively before Delta. With omicron, it's worthless for preventing spread. Kids are the one age group at higher risk from flu than covid. My two kids (8 and 15) aren't vaxxed. They caught omicron, and now they are in the ICU... Oh wait,no they are fine, had almost zero symptoms, and were playing outside the day they tested positive. Which is, statistically, a virtual certainty. They aren't morbidly obese or immunocompromised, so they shrugged it off. Nobody is dying on a hill. We're just better at statistics and aren't gullible enough to believe these panicked fools. Put an experimental product from Big Pharma in your kid for no reason. That's your call. But ask yourself why you suddenly trust the FDA, an organization that labeled oxycontin non addictive, approved Vioxx, approved remdesivir for covid despite it being useless, and that's just the past 15 years. Fear is the mind killer indeed.