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"In fashion, trust me, that are MANY problems that need to be solved: a highly antiquated supply chain, non-standard, un-linked computer systems, non-standard s

by kariatx 15y ago

"In fashion, trust me, that are MANY problems that need to be solved: a highly antiquated supply chain, non-standard, un-linked computer systems, non-standard sizing that varies even within the same line, inefficient pricing methods." I don't see why internet fashion companies couldn't take a crack at solving / mitigating at least some of these. For example, there are some sites (like zafu.com - no affiliation) that help women find jeans that fit. They can't change the sizes on the jeans, but I'm not holding my breath for the fashion industry to make sizing any easier any time soon. I also disagree with her claim that discoverability is not a problem. A lot of people are trying to solve it, but I don't consider it solved for myself (or other women I know). I find the choices in women's fashion to be overwhelming (to say the least), and I'm still looking for the more efficient ways to find clothes I like. I agree with her overall point that the number of trendy affiliate fashion sites is getting tiresome, but that doesn't mean that they couldn't be developed in interesting ways. It may be true that affiliate sites need to sell a ton more in order to compete with "click-and-mortar" fashion companies, but I'd argue that affiliate sites can also be more innovative, flexible, and forward thinking. If you're not shipping or manufacturing, you can iterate more quickly.

melanie_io 15y ago
I was actually discussing this very point with a good friend of mine who also runs a fashion startup the other day. To refine what I said: it's not that discoverability is not a problem, it's that all of the new fashion apps (from Lyst to Fashism to Inporia to Svpply to Google Boutiques) seem to have only increased the "noise" versus decrease it. In fashion, customers pay for the edit: a small, curated collection of products that an editor has determined best fits her customer's profile. To argue that we can somehow replace this very right-brained activity with crowdsourcing or algorithms is untenable.
- chime 15y ago
  > To argue that we can somehow replace this very right-brained activity with crowd-sourcing or algorithms is untenable. For now maybe. Ten years ago if you asked me if I'd spend 2 hours watching a movie because a computer said so, I'd laugh. Netflix recommendations, while not perfect, are still very good. Had I not told Netflix that I loved District 9, it would not have suggested Torchwood: Children of Earth to me. Had it not suggested Torchwood, I wouldn't have discovered that Doctor Who was back on air. Right now I get about 50% of my entertainment discovery done via algorithms. Sure, fashion is difficult and subjective but I don't see it as being any different from music or entertainment in the big picture sense. Btw, that was a very well-written article. Thanks for sharing.
  - jfarmer 15y ago
    It is different. When buying clothes people ask questions like "Will my girlfriend think I'm sexier?" or "Will the kids at school think I'm cooler?" Fashion is a kind of performance -- people see what you wear, after all -- so there's an inherent social dimension that isn't obviously present like it is with movies on Netflix, which you watch in the privacy of your own home. People, not robots, will win the day when it comes to shopping online.
    - encoderer 15y ago
      The core of these recommendation algorithms is often a flavor of nearest neighbor analysis. In this case, the computer is using attributes to find people who are similar to you, and then suggest to you things that they liked. All the "robots" do is find people who it thinks you would like to emulate. That sounds like the same thing the fashion industry has been doing for decades.
      - jfarmer 15y ago
        Robots don't merchandise, that's the problem. For many people decisions about what to wear is very intimate, but algorithms are bloodless. The who, where, and how matter much more in fashion. Algorithms miss that.
        encoderer 15y ago
        I'm not really opposed to what you're saying, but it does seem to me like you dismiss the big human factor in these algorithms. It's not like it's just a system saying "You bought a red dress last year, here is a list of other red dresses you may like" -- Because the quirky frock she bought for work last year doesn't mean she wants to see cocktail dresses that just so happen to be the same color, or from the same designer, or in the same price range. Instead, it's correlating prototypical woman A to prototypical woman B based on available demographic data and past purchase history, and suggesting to "A" some of the things that "B" purchased. The emotion and intimacy there was the human act of "B" purchasing clothing that she connected with.
- modfodder 15y ago
  Is this a symptom of startups wanting the homerun rather than building a smaller business around the edit? Seems to me that a business built around an edit fit to a customer's profile takes a personal intuitive touch or time and a ton of data whereas the current crop of fashion apps is throwing everything against the wall in hopes of attracting large numbers (of less discerning) users in the belief that # of users = high valuation (as opposed to the quality of users). I hate to read startup blogs/news and they talk about exit strategy. What if Jobs, Gates, Page/Brin, and Bezos worried more about the exit rather than building a sustainable business. (I know it's off topic, just irks me.)
- kariatx 15y ago
  I totally agree about the increased noise making discoverability worse. In fact, I have spent very little time on any of the new sites we're talking about just due to sheer exhaustion from market oversaturation. And that's crazy, because I'm probably their ideal customer.They definitely aren't reaching me, and they should be. I tend to agree with you about curation versus AI, but I am not 100% sure. Years ago I was skeptical that collaborative filtering would ever work at all. As the poster below notes, it does pretty well for Netflix and sometimes for Amazon too. I could at least imagine some sort of AI recommendation system working for the masses, but I doubt it would ever appeal to the highest end customers.
- inmygarage 15y ago
  What are your thoughts on Pinterest? I use it all the time - recent purchases as a result of Pinterest include a bunch of apartment furnishings, an iPhone case, some new t-shirts, etc. And now when I need something I have started using it as a search engine. I do think it has solved the problem of both breadth of options and targeted results. Disclosure: I am female.
  - rokhayakebe 15y ago
    Pinterest is one the coolest/simplest site I've discovered this year. I have yet to buy anything straight from it, but I search for styles through it before going out and buying clothes. If I must. Disclosure: I am a guy.

by kariatx 15y ago

melanie_io 15y ago

I was actually discussing this very point with a good friend of mine who also runs a fashion startup the other day. To refine what I said: it's not that discoverability is not a problem, it's that all of the new fashion apps (from Lyst to Fashism to Inporia to Svpply to Google Boutiques) seem to have only increased the "noise" versus decrease it. In fashion, customers pay for the edit: a small, curated collection of products that an editor has determined best fits her customer's profile. To argue that we can somehow replace this very right-brained activity with crowdsourcing or algorithms is untenable.

chime 15y ago
> To argue that we can somehow replace this very right-brained activity with crowd-sourcing or algorithms is untenable. For now maybe. Ten years ago if you asked me if I'd spend 2 hours watching a movie because a computer said so, I'd laugh. Netflix recommendations, while not perfect, are still very good. Had I not told Netflix that I loved District 9, it would not have suggested Torchwood: Children of Earth to me. Had it not suggested Torchwood, I wouldn't have discovered that Doctor Who was back on air. Right now I get about 50% of my entertainment discovery done via algorithms. Sure, fashion is difficult and subjective but I don't see it as being any different from music or entertainment in the big picture sense. Btw, that was a very well-written article. Thanks for sharing.
- jfarmer 15y ago
  It is different. When buying clothes people ask questions like "Will my girlfriend think I'm sexier?" or "Will the kids at school think I'm cooler?" Fashion is a kind of performance -- people see what you wear, after all -- so there's an inherent social dimension that isn't obviously present like it is with movies on Netflix, which you watch in the privacy of your own home. People, not robots, will win the day when it comes to shopping online.
  - encoderer 15y ago
    The core of these recommendation algorithms is often a flavor of nearest neighbor analysis. In this case, the computer is using attributes to find people who are similar to you, and then suggest to you things that they liked. All the "robots" do is find people who it thinks you would like to emulate. That sounds like the same thing the fashion industry has been doing for decades.
    - jfarmer 15y ago
      Robots don't merchandise, that's the problem. For many people decisions about what to wear is very intimate, but algorithms are bloodless. The who, where, and how matter much more in fashion. Algorithms miss that.
      - encoderer 15y ago
        I'm not really opposed to what you're saying, but it does seem to me like you dismiss the big human factor in these algorithms. It's not like it's just a system saying "You bought a red dress last year, here is a list of other red dresses you may like" -- Because the quirky frock she bought for work last year doesn't mean she wants to see cocktail dresses that just so happen to be the same color, or from the same designer, or in the same price range. Instead, it's correlating prototypical woman A to prototypical woman B based on available demographic data and past purchase history, and suggesting to "A" some of the things that "B" purchased. The emotion and intimacy there was the human act of "B" purchasing clothing that she connected with.
modfodder 15y ago
Is this a symptom of startups wanting the homerun rather than building a smaller business around the edit? Seems to me that a business built around an edit fit to a customer's profile takes a personal intuitive touch or time and a ton of data whereas the current crop of fashion apps is throwing everything against the wall in hopes of attracting large numbers (of less discerning) users in the belief that # of users = high valuation (as opposed to the quality of users). I hate to read startup blogs/news and they talk about exit strategy. What if Jobs, Gates, Page/Brin, and Bezos worried more about the exit rather than building a sustainable business. (I know it's off topic, just irks me.)
kariatx 15y ago
I totally agree about the increased noise making discoverability worse. In fact, I have spent very little time on any of the new sites we're talking about just due to sheer exhaustion from market oversaturation. And that's crazy, because I'm probably their ideal customer.They definitely aren't reaching me, and they should be. I tend to agree with you about curation versus AI, but I am not 100% sure. Years ago I was skeptical that collaborative filtering would ever work at all. As the poster below notes, it does pretty well for Netflix and sometimes for Amazon too. I could at least imagine some sort of AI recommendation system working for the masses, but I doubt it would ever appeal to the highest end customers.
inmygarage 15y ago
What are your thoughts on Pinterest? I use it all the time - recent purchases as a result of Pinterest include a bunch of apartment furnishings, an iPhone case, some new t-shirts, etc. And now when I need something I have started using it as a search engine. I do think it has solved the problem of both breadth of options and targeted results. Disclosure: I am female.
- rokhayakebe 15y ago
  Pinterest is one the coolest/simplest site I've discovered this year. I have yet to buy anything straight from it, but I search for styles through it before going out and buying clothes. If I must. Disclosure: I am a guy.