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> partly because it's easier for the government to just tell everyone to get vaccinated. Do you make no allocation in your mind for the potential that the gove

> partly because it's easier for the government to just tell everyone to get vaccinated. Do you make no allocation in your mind for the potential that the government is corrupted and the motivations have nothing really to do with public health?

SCHiM 5y ago
Sorry, but in my opinion that is a silly thing to believe. I'm assuming you're from a liberal democracy, what if I told you you could have _your_ name on the (local) ballot next time a $LOCAL vote comes around? The government, for the most part, is not an evil cabal of deep state cultists (in most countries that describe themselves as liberal today). People like you or me can join a party, and then get elected within a year or two. What I absolutely do believe is that people elected, through what is essentially a harmless popularity contest in peace time, are the worst type of people you want to have taking decisions in a crisis. People worried about their next re-election are _not_ going to make the right decisions, apart from the fact that in peace time the electorate optimizes for populism and extremism, and the candidates are sometimes more like actors than leaders. In short: they are incompetent, heavy handed and not even remotely equipped to deal withe massive leverage attached to the levers they control.
- reedjosh 5y ago
  Sure, I could end up voted in as the mayor of a small town. That's nothing like making it into congress. A small town mayor has none of the power a member of congress would. In democracy the larger the seat, the larger the infrastructure required to get there. The funding of this infrastructure brings the necessity of corruption.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > A small town mayor has none of the power a member of congress would. Assuming the mayor is in an executive mayor system (not a council-manager) system, they often have far more practical power than a member of Congress over any issue, but their power is over smaller issues. Even in a council-manager system, the mayor (who is a primus inter pares council member) is more likely than member of Congress to have decisive power over any issue within their ambit. (Also, being a small town mayor, or similar local officer, is not an uncommon way to build the infrastructure for becoming, say a state legislator. And that's a way to build the infrastructure for Congress, and that for Senate/Governorship, and that for the Presidency.)
  - Handytinge 5y ago
    We are discussing a conspiracy that requires the cooporation of hundreds of worldwide governments. The process to gain the power of your "congress" is fairly insignificant within this discussion. There are many governments with varying paths to power.
PickledHotdog 5y ago
So every government, the world over, even those at war with each other, all decided to push a "get vaccinated" message for reasons other than health? I mean, governments want to ensure their income stream (tax payers) are alive to pay taxes, but that's hardly "corrupt" and is still to do, indirectly, with public health
- reedjosh 5y ago
  > So every government, the world over, even those at war with each other, all decided Yes, it's quite a possibility. Please read into the growing concentration of world power via corporations and un-elected organization like the WEF and WHO. Further, please read into puplic-private partnerships. Our world is a global one these days and nearly every government is corrupted by a form of corporatism.
  - scoopertrooper 5y ago
    > Our world is a global one these days and nearly every government is corrupted by a form of corporatism. So communist Cuba is corrupted by a form of corporatism? Big pharma got to the ayatollahs in Iran? Maduro in Venezuela is goose stepping to the beat of the pharmaceutical conspiracy?
    - reedjosh 5y ago
      > So communist Cuba is corrupted by a form of corporatism? https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/cuba-health-authorities-and-international-partners-exchange-ideas-on-opportunities-for-cooperation-while-sweden-invests-in-covid-19-diagnostic-technologies https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/cuba-he... > Authorities of the Ministry of Public Health (MINSAP) and the Biotechnological and Pharmaceutical Industries of Cuba (BioCubaFarma) met with representatives of European embassies, Cuban-based partner agencies and PAHO/WHO country office to continue promoting collaboration in the health sector. https://www.farsnews.ir/en/news/13990121000392/Ayallah-Khamenei-Asks-Uniy-f-Hman-Sciey-agains-Arrgan-Pwers https://www.farsnews.ir/en/news/13990121000392/Ayallah-Khame... > The World Health Organization has considered priorities in combating coronavirus and Islamic Republic of Iran obeys and follows up priorities as defined by WHO. Admittedly Iran banned US made vaccines, but then just put out their own in cooperation with the WHO, COVAX and Gavi. https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/01/12/iran-khameneis-reckless-ban-covid-19-vaccine# https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/01/12/iran-khameneis-reckless-... > Iran has said that the country is participating in the COVAX Facility, which is an effort by the World Health Organization, Gavi (the Vaccine Alliance), and the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations (CEPI) to help low- and middle-income countries get access to vaccines. Iran started the first phase of the human trial for a domestically produced vaccine in December 2020. See https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/who-funds-world-health-organization-un-coronavirus-pandemic-covid-trump https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/who-funds-world-healt... for who the WHO is funded by. At the point when the US pulled funding, the largest donor was the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and the third was Gavi. Bill Gates owns a lot of pharma stock. The foundation is a way to garner influence in a tax free and humanitarian looking way. Who funds Gavi? It's a rabbit hole, but the world is complicated and conflicts of interest (corruption) abound. Please do follow a few of these research threads and try to be open minded to those suspicious of wealthy people claiming to operate in our interest.
eloff 5y ago
We're not talking about the government here, we're probably talking about over a hundred governments worldwide. They're all corrupt in the same way? That's ridiculous. Also what's the end game here. Why would a corrupt government gain by mandating masks and encouraging vaccination. Even the potential motive is lacking.

SCHiM 5y ago

Sorry, but in my opinion that is a silly thing to believe. I'm assuming you're from a liberal democracy, what if I told you you could have _your_ name on the (local) ballot next time a $LOCAL vote comes around? The government, for the most part, is not an evil cabal of deep state cultists (in most countries that describe themselves as liberal today). People like you or me can join a party, and then get elected within a year or two. What I absolutely do believe is that people elected, through what is essentially a harmless popularity contest in peace time, are the worst type of people you want to have taking decisions in a crisis. People worried about their next re-election are _not_ going to make the right decisions, apart from the fact that in peace time the electorate optimizes for populism and extremism, and the candidates are sometimes more like actors than leaders. In short: they are incompetent, heavy handed and not even remotely equipped to deal withe massive leverage attached to the levers they control.

reedjosh 5y ago
Sure, I could end up voted in as the mayor of a small town. That's nothing like making it into congress. A small town mayor has none of the power a member of congress would. In democracy the larger the seat, the larger the infrastructure required to get there. The funding of this infrastructure brings the necessity of corruption.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > A small town mayor has none of the power a member of congress would. Assuming the mayor is in an executive mayor system (not a council-manager) system, they often have far more practical power than a member of Congress over any issue, but their power is over smaller issues. Even in a council-manager system, the mayor (who is a primus inter pares council member) is more likely than member of Congress to have decisive power over any issue within their ambit. (Also, being a small town mayor, or similar local officer, is not an uncommon way to build the infrastructure for becoming, say a state legislator. And that's a way to build the infrastructure for Congress, and that for Senate/Governorship, and that for the Presidency.)
- Handytinge 5y ago
  We are discussing a conspiracy that requires the cooporation of hundreds of worldwide governments. The process to gain the power of your "congress" is fairly insignificant within this discussion. There are many governments with varying paths to power.

PickledHotdog 5y ago

So every government, the world over, even those at war with each other, all decided to push a "get vaccinated" message for reasons other than health? I mean, governments want to ensure their income stream (tax payers) are alive to pay taxes, but that's hardly "corrupt" and is still to do, indirectly, with public health

reedjosh 5y ago
> So every government, the world over, even those at war with each other, all decided Yes, it's quite a possibility. Please read into the growing concentration of world power via corporations and un-elected organization like the WEF and WHO. Further, please read into puplic-private partnerships. Our world is a global one these days and nearly every government is corrupted by a form of corporatism.
- scoopertrooper 5y ago
  > Our world is a global one these days and nearly every government is corrupted by a form of corporatism. So communist Cuba is corrupted by a form of corporatism? Big pharma got to the ayatollahs in Iran? Maduro in Venezuela is goose stepping to the beat of the pharmaceutical conspiracy?
  - reedjosh 5y ago
    > So communist Cuba is corrupted by a form of corporatism? https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/cuba-health-authorities-and-international-partners-exchange-ideas-on-opportunities-for-cooperation-while-sweden-invests-in-covid-19-diagnostic-technologies https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/cuba-he... > Authorities of the Ministry of Public Health (MINSAP) and the Biotechnological and Pharmaceutical Industries of Cuba (BioCubaFarma) met with representatives of European embassies, Cuban-based partner agencies and PAHO/WHO country office to continue promoting collaboration in the health sector. https://www.farsnews.ir/en/news/13990121000392/Ayallah-Khamenei-Asks-Uniy-f-Hman-Sciey-agains-Arrgan-Pwers https://www.farsnews.ir/en/news/13990121000392/Ayallah-Khame... > The World Health Organization has considered priorities in combating coronavirus and Islamic Republic of Iran obeys and follows up priorities as defined by WHO. Admittedly Iran banned US made vaccines, but then just put out their own in cooperation with the WHO, COVAX and Gavi. https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/01/12/iran-khameneis-reckless-ban-covid-19-vaccine# https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/01/12/iran-khameneis-reckless-... > Iran has said that the country is participating in the COVAX Facility, which is an effort by the World Health Organization, Gavi (the Vaccine Alliance), and the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations (CEPI) to help low- and middle-income countries get access to vaccines. Iran started the first phase of the human trial for a domestically produced vaccine in December 2020. See https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/who-funds-world-health-organization-un-coronavirus-pandemic-covid-trump https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/who-funds-world-healt... for who the WHO is funded by. At the point when the US pulled funding, the largest donor was the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and the third was Gavi. Bill Gates owns a lot of pharma stock. The foundation is a way to garner influence in a tax free and humanitarian looking way. Who funds Gavi? It's a rabbit hole, but the world is complicated and conflicts of interest (corruption) abound. Please do follow a few of these research threads and try to be open minded to those suspicious of wealthy people claiming to operate in our interest.

eloff 5y ago

We're not talking about the government here, we're probably talking about over a hundred governments worldwide. They're all corrupt in the same way? That's ridiculous. Also what's the end game here. Why would a corrupt government gain by mandating masks and encouraging vaccination. Even the potential motive is lacking.