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The UK, Denmark and others moving to get rid of ALL restrictions. Meanwhile Canada, Australia and others devolving into police states... Edit - forgot some ot

The UK, Denmark and others moving to get rid of ALL restrictions. Meanwhile Canada, Australia and others devolving into police states... Edit - forgot some other countries. Netherlands, Ireland also ditching restrictions...

SSilver2k2 5y ago
Not a police state to put in more restrictions after the bare minimum hasn't worked or been followed.
- aaomidi 5y ago
  Grocery stores are barely a vector of transmission. There's no real data to back this decision up.
- jaywalk 5y ago
  Whether you agree with the policies or not doesn't change the fact that it's a police state.
- kerneloftruth 5y ago
  What does "worked" mean? Illness and risk lower, or simply people following orders? People have lost sight of the former after unrelenting emphasis on the latter. It's time to turn critical thinking skills back on.
  - errcorrectcode 5y ago
    Vaccinations prevent deaths and reduce stress on the healthcare system. They work, but they only work when people get them. Read: When Did Mandatory Vaccinations Become Common? (article from 2015) https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/158827 https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/158827 There were 1282 cases of measles in 2019. Around 90% were caused by anti-vaxx hermit communities who freeload off the protections of the police, military, healthcare system, and other services, but live here and put others at risk because magical beliefs makes them "special". If you reject vaccinations, then I suggest you should sign a waiver that you also reject healthcare. Can't have it both ways. "Ounce of prevention."
- dijonman2 5y ago
  False. Individual liberty must be protected. Denying food shopping is a special kind of cruel and unusual punishment. It’s a personal choice, full stop.
  - SSilver2k2 5y ago
    Yes, such a cruel and unusual punishment to have your groceries delivered directly to your door.
    - pbourke 5y ago
      Not everyone is able to do that, for a number of reasons: - not capable of using a mobile app or website for ordering - low language proficiency - not able to be at home to accept delivery during the day - don’t have a means of payment compatible with online ordering - live paycheck to paycheck and depend on going to the store “on demand” to make essential purchases (such as on payday). Often after normal delivery hours.
      - qtzl 5y ago
  - tsimionescu 5y ago
    Why should it be a personal choice? Living through this pandemic without getting vaccinated is at least as dangerous to public health as driving a car without wearing a seatbelt, and that is illegal. Even if the vaccine did nothing to stop the spread of COVID (it does much more than nothing), it is still of vital importance to keeping ICUs free, which in turn is important for everyone. Since your choice has an outsize effect on society, and since we have ample, overwhelming, incontrovertible evidence that the vaccine is safe and certainly hundreds of times safer than the disease, I see no reason why it shouldn't be considered mandatory.
    - Baloo 5y ago
      Where exactly do we draw the line? I'm young, slim, healthy, unvaccinated, not tested positive for Covid once even after my housemates had it. "There is not a single example of a country with less than 40% of the population overweight that has high death rates (over 10 per 100,000). Similarly, no country with a death rate over 100 per 100,000 had less than 50% of their population overweight" Are we going to start banning overweight from consuming alcohol and eating fast food? They're putting tremendous pressure on our universal healthcare system, their choice to be unhealthy has an outsized effect on society; specifically the health systems that we are using as a reason to push vaccination on everyone, regardless of their risk category. Can't you see where this mindset leads us?
that_guy_iain 5y ago
The UK is only doing that because the PM has been so fragile because he's screwed up covid related things for so long he needs the backbenchers. They're also super desperate because they left the European Union and that is also having a terrible effect on the economy. Copying the UK is not a clever idea.
- Mikeb85 5y ago
  So why is Denmark opening up completely? Like no vaccine passport, nothing?
  - that_guy_iain 5y ago
    > Although it no longer believes Covid-19 should be classed a critical threat to society, some measures to limit transmission are still beneficial, it said. Is quote I found while looking into this. It seems like they're not opening up completely, they're just removing a bunch of rules. There is still talk of large events possibly needing proof of vacination. This information is super new and what actually happens and how they actually do it is yet to be fully confirmed as far as I can tell. Edit: Also important they have 77 people in ICU in the entire country. Where as Berlin alone has 186.
    - jmartinpetersen 5y ago
      The PM announced a total opening on February 1st in Denmark. There might be mandated face masks for guests at hospitals and elder care in addition to proof of vaccination or negative tests. At these places only. All other restrictions are being lifted.
  - belorn 5y ago
    The argument is that since the vaccination rate is so high and the effect of omicron is considered mild, the outcomes are not no longer considered server enough to qualify for general restrictions. There will still be targeted restrictions, such as in the elder care. Time will tell if that will be enough and if the health care system will manage.
WaylonKenning 5y ago
As someone who lived in Canada, lives next to Australia, and lives in New Zealand, I wouldn't suggest any of these places are 'devolving into police states'. Having people do stuff to protect the safety of themselves and others is part of the social contract of these countries. We wear seatbelts. We wear helmets on Motorbikes. All things that restrict our freedom to damage ourselves. Because who incurs the cost of when you hurt yourself or others? The government! Like a lot of advanced countries we have a single payer government operated healthcare system that needs to ration care since nothing in life is infinite. So governments are motivated to protect systems that protect everyone like healthcare.
- playcache 5y ago
  Would you accept people being able to shop if they can demonstrate they have anti-bodies / natural immunity?
- ajkdhcb2 5y ago
  As an Australian who was concerned enough to emigrate, i'd suggest learning about the security laws passed over the last 10 years and considering how it matches the opportunistic actions taken during the pandemic. Maybe you like the police state and it is somewhat democratic so far but that doesnt mean isn't quite literally a police state.
- daenz 5y ago
  Seat belts and helmets do not require chemicals to be injected into your bloodstream in order to freely associate with other humans. These measures change free association by making it illegal to exist naturally around others. There is a huge difference.
  - EForEndeavour 5y ago
    Yeah, but cars don't hitch rides in your lungs and jump into nearby people's mouths, occasionally injuring them.
    - 5y ago
bastardoperator 5y ago
The tyranny of having these items delivered directly to your doorstep...
vanusa 5y ago
Denmark is moving to getting rid of ALL restrictions. We'll see. They did that in September of course, only to re-introduce them 2 months later. Keep in mind they're only able to do this (if it ends up working) because they have the highest vaccination rate in Europe. What Quebec's rates are, I don't know.
- lambdaba 5y ago
  And yet their case rates are booming (top 3 in the world) and their deaths curve looks very similar to the 1st wave.
  - vanusa 5y ago
    Hey I'm not the one making the policy change. I'm just saying, at least they have that (partial) justification. And that they say they "expect" rates to go down.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- errcorrectcode 5y ago
  BoJo is also trying that in the UK to save his office. People being "tired" of something (pandemic fatigue) doesn't matter if loosened collective hygiene standards would kill too many people.
subsubzero 5y ago
Article that really reinforces your point about Australia, can it even be called a democracy anymore? https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-australia-still-liberal-democracy/619940/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-a...

SSilver2k2 5y ago

Not a police state to put in more restrictions after the bare minimum hasn't worked or been followed.

aaomidi 5y ago
Grocery stores are barely a vector of transmission. There's no real data to back this decision up.
jaywalk 5y ago
Whether you agree with the policies or not doesn't change the fact that it's a police state.
kerneloftruth 5y ago
What does "worked" mean? Illness and risk lower, or simply people following orders? People have lost sight of the former after unrelenting emphasis on the latter. It's time to turn critical thinking skills back on.
- errcorrectcode 5y ago
  Vaccinations prevent deaths and reduce stress on the healthcare system. They work, but they only work when people get them. Read: When Did Mandatory Vaccinations Become Common? (article from 2015) https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/158827 https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/158827 There were 1282 cases of measles in 2019. Around 90% were caused by anti-vaxx hermit communities who freeload off the protections of the police, military, healthcare system, and other services, but live here and put others at risk because magical beliefs makes them "special". If you reject vaccinations, then I suggest you should sign a waiver that you also reject healthcare. Can't have it both ways. "Ounce of prevention."
dijonman2 5y ago
False. Individual liberty must be protected. Denying food shopping is a special kind of cruel and unusual punishment. It’s a personal choice, full stop.
- SSilver2k2 5y ago
  Yes, such a cruel and unusual punishment to have your groceries delivered directly to your door.
  - pbourke 5y ago
    Not everyone is able to do that, for a number of reasons: - not capable of using a mobile app or website for ordering - low language proficiency - not able to be at home to accept delivery during the day - don’t have a means of payment compatible with online ordering - live paycheck to paycheck and depend on going to the store “on demand” to make essential purchases (such as on payday). Often after normal delivery hours.
    - qtzl 5y ago
- tsimionescu 5y ago
  Why should it be a personal choice? Living through this pandemic without getting vaccinated is at least as dangerous to public health as driving a car without wearing a seatbelt, and that is illegal. Even if the vaccine did nothing to stop the spread of COVID (it does much more than nothing), it is still of vital importance to keeping ICUs free, which in turn is important for everyone. Since your choice has an outsize effect on society, and since we have ample, overwhelming, incontrovertible evidence that the vaccine is safe and certainly hundreds of times safer than the disease, I see no reason why it shouldn't be considered mandatory.
  - Baloo 5y ago
    Where exactly do we draw the line? I'm young, slim, healthy, unvaccinated, not tested positive for Covid once even after my housemates had it. "There is not a single example of a country with less than 40% of the population overweight that has high death rates (over 10 per 100,000). Similarly, no country with a death rate over 100 per 100,000 had less than 50% of their population overweight" Are we going to start banning overweight from consuming alcohol and eating fast food? They're putting tremendous pressure on our universal healthcare system, their choice to be unhealthy has an outsized effect on society; specifically the health systems that we are using as a reason to push vaccination on everyone, regardless of their risk category. Can't you see where this mindset leads us?

that_guy_iain 5y ago

The UK is only doing that because the PM has been so fragile because he's screwed up covid related things for so long he needs the backbenchers. They're also super desperate because they left the European Union and that is also having a terrible effect on the economy. Copying the UK is not a clever idea.

Mikeb85 5y ago
So why is Denmark opening up completely? Like no vaccine passport, nothing?
- that_guy_iain 5y ago
  > Although it no longer believes Covid-19 should be classed a critical threat to society, some measures to limit transmission are still beneficial, it said. Is quote I found while looking into this. It seems like they're not opening up completely, they're just removing a bunch of rules. There is still talk of large events possibly needing proof of vacination. This information is super new and what actually happens and how they actually do it is yet to be fully confirmed as far as I can tell. Edit: Also important they have 77 people in ICU in the entire country. Where as Berlin alone has 186.
  - jmartinpetersen 5y ago
    The PM announced a total opening on February 1st in Denmark. There might be mandated face masks for guests at hospitals and elder care in addition to proof of vaccination or negative tests. At these places only. All other restrictions are being lifted.
- belorn 5y ago
  The argument is that since the vaccination rate is so high and the effect of omicron is considered mild, the outcomes are not no longer considered server enough to qualify for general restrictions. There will still be targeted restrictions, such as in the elder care. Time will tell if that will be enough and if the health care system will manage.

WaylonKenning 5y ago

As someone who lived in Canada, lives next to Australia, and lives in New Zealand, I wouldn't suggest any of these places are 'devolving into police states'. Having people do stuff to protect the safety of themselves and others is part of the social contract of these countries. We wear seatbelts. We wear helmets on Motorbikes. All things that restrict our freedom to damage ourselves. Because who incurs the cost of when you hurt yourself or others? The government! Like a lot of advanced countries we have a single payer government operated healthcare system that needs to ration care since nothing in life is infinite. So governments are motivated to protect systems that protect everyone like healthcare.

playcache 5y ago
Would you accept people being able to shop if they can demonstrate they have anti-bodies / natural immunity?
ajkdhcb2 5y ago
As an Australian who was concerned enough to emigrate, i'd suggest learning about the security laws passed over the last 10 years and considering how it matches the opportunistic actions taken during the pandemic. Maybe you like the police state and it is somewhat democratic so far but that doesnt mean isn't quite literally a police state.
daenz 5y ago
Seat belts and helmets do not require chemicals to be injected into your bloodstream in order to freely associate with other humans. These measures change free association by making it illegal to exist naturally around others. There is a huge difference.
- EForEndeavour 5y ago
  Yeah, but cars don't hitch rides in your lungs and jump into nearby people's mouths, occasionally injuring them.
  - 5y ago

bastardoperator 5y ago

The tyranny of having these items delivered directly to your doorstep...

vanusa 5y ago

Denmark is moving to getting rid of ALL restrictions. We'll see. They did that in September of course, only to re-introduce them 2 months later. Keep in mind they're only able to do this (if it ends up working) because they have the highest vaccination rate in Europe. What Quebec's rates are, I don't know.

lambdaba 5y ago
And yet their case rates are booming (top 3 in the world) and their deaths curve looks very similar to the 1st wave.
- vanusa 5y ago
  Hey I'm not the one making the policy change. I'm just saying, at least they have that (partial) justification. And that they say they "expect" rates to go down.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
errcorrectcode 5y ago
BoJo is also trying that in the UK to save his office. People being "tired" of something (pandemic fatigue) doesn't matter if loosened collective hygiene standards would kill too many people.

subsubzero 5y ago

Article that really reinforces your point about Australia, can it even be called a democracy anymore? https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-australia-still-liberal-democracy/619940/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-a...