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Even worse: Why would I trust professional liars whose wrongdoings were uncovered by Snowden? "Do your own research". He cannot even name specific sources for h

by summm 5y ago

Even worse: Why would I trust professional liars whose wrongdoings were uncovered by Snowden? "Do your own research". He cannot even name specific sources for his vague insinuations.

toss1 5y ago
>>cannot even name nope, just didn't bother to go track it down for a comment. but here you go, this [0][1]should have enough details and links to start you off. You might also note that while the progressive Barack Obama had no problem pardoning Manning, he did no such thing for Snowdon. This was after the US House Intelligence Committee — not intelligence agency people, and both parties — UNANIMOUSLY voted to approve a report on Edward Snowden finding that he "did tremendous damage" to U.S. national security [2]. Perhaps you can explain how the whole airport fiasco and taking on Snowdon could have happened without Putin's direct approval - and why he'd do such a thing if it is "only" US civil rights issues at stake from Snowdon's theft. Perhaps you can also explain how among the million+ documents Snowdon stole, only a few actually have anything to do with the headlines touting the civil liberty cause - e.g., exposing details of Israel’s killing of senior WMD proliferators in Syria [3]. Seriously, how does that improve anything in the US? If you actually bother to look, without the hero-worshipping glasses and Qanon-level suspicion of anything related to government, you find that his massive story is a fraud. [0] https://observer.com/2016/09/the-real-ed-snowden-is-a-patsy-a-fraud-and-a-kremlin-controlled-pawn/ https://observer.com/2016/09/the-real-ed-snowden-is-a-patsy-... [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20200606111426/https://20committee.com/2015/07/19/the-painful-truth-about-snowden/ https://web.archive.org/web/20200606111426/https://20committ... [2] https://www.lawfareblog.com/house-intelligence-committee-releases-snowden-report-summary https://www.lawfareblog.com/house-intelligence-committee-rel... [3] https://web.archive.org/web/20200226232346/https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Snowden-leak-Israeli-commandos-killed-Syrian-general-at-dinner-party-409089 https://web.archive.org/web/20200226232346/https://www.jpost...
- summm 5y ago
  Thanks for making the effort. All with the background that the US deep state including the NSA are proven to infringe on every thinkable human right, if it just serves their own purpose. This is a bed they themselves made, they have to lie in it. (Pun not intended) [0] is quite unusable from this POV, as the author is an ex(?)-NSA person. It is an opinion hit-piece, starts with character assassination, just repeats the accusations. The recommendation to submit himself to US secret (!) court system is a mockery, if you have followed the Assange show-trials. Secret court systems that always rule in favor of the state? That, being secret, cannot undergo the scrutiny of the public? Even if he is innocent, at this point nobody who makes this suggestions can be taken seriously. He would be at the mercy of a vengeful deep state while disappearing in a supermax prison for at least some years. Versus, living what looks like a decent live in Moscow. If Snowden was innocent, this is just the same as I would expect from a lying NSA mouthpiece. The story about getting trapped in Russia would include some severely dumb mistakes by the US. Revoking his passport exactly at this time, trapping him in the capital of one of their worst enemies? Again, nothing what Snowden did after his escape really depends on his motives. [1] Interesting spy story. But again from an ex(?)-NSA person. Also, or, in consequence, a bit one-sided and very focused on the cold-war communist scare. About the "without Putins approval". What do you mean? Even if a dictator like Putin had no involvement before, presented with such an opportunity, I'd fully expect him to personally take advantage of such a situation, showing the "hypocrisy of the west" and sticking it to the US. That's exactly what he is doing now, dangling Snowden in front of the world. Snowden seeking protection from a weaker country would have been very stupid for him, as Assange can surely tell in hindsight. Anyway, all of this could also be a ruse of the NSA, to publicize a lot of things hat had been public knowledge anyways all at once, containing the public uproar and legalizing their forbidded deeds. Most things like the secret spy gear room etc. in advance. Did anyone in the NSA going rogue get punished for overstepping their boundaries, breaking numerous laws? I don't think so. The only ones who are punished are the messengers, and then law breaking only stopped, because the laws have been changed.

by summm 5y ago

Even worse: Why would I trust professional liars whose wrongdoings were uncovered by Snowden? "Do your own research". He cannot even name specific sources for his vague insinuations.

toss1 5y ago

>>cannot even name nope, just didn't bother to go track it down for a comment. but here you go, this [0][1]should have enough details and links to start you off. You might also note that while the progressive Barack Obama had no problem pardoning Manning, he did no such thing for Snowdon. This was after the US House Intelligence Committee — not intelligence agency people, and both parties — UNANIMOUSLY voted to approve a report on Edward Snowden finding that he "did tremendous damage" to U.S. national security [2]. Perhaps you can explain how the whole airport fiasco and taking on Snowdon could have happened without Putin's direct approval - and why he'd do such a thing if it is "only" US civil rights issues at stake from Snowdon's theft. Perhaps you can also explain how among the million+ documents Snowdon stole, only a few actually have anything to do with the headlines touting the civil liberty cause - e.g., exposing details of Israel’s killing of senior WMD proliferators in Syria [3]. Seriously, how does that improve anything in the US? If you actually bother to look, without the hero-worshipping glasses and Qanon-level suspicion of anything related to government, you find that his massive story is a fraud. [0] https://observer.com/2016/09/the-real-ed-snowden-is-a-patsy-a-fraud-and-a-kremlin-controlled-pawn/ https://observer.com/2016/09/the-real-ed-snowden-is-a-patsy-... [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20200606111426/https://20committee.com/2015/07/19/the-painful-truth-about-snowden/ https://web.archive.org/web/20200606111426/https://20committ... [2] https://www.lawfareblog.com/house-intelligence-committee-releases-snowden-report-summary https://www.lawfareblog.com/house-intelligence-committee-rel... [3] https://web.archive.org/web/20200226232346/https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Snowden-leak-Israeli-commandos-killed-Syrian-general-at-dinner-party-409089 https://web.archive.org/web/20200226232346/https://www.jpost...

summm 5y ago
Thanks for making the effort. All with the background that the US deep state including the NSA are proven to infringe on every thinkable human right, if it just serves their own purpose. This is a bed they themselves made, they have to lie in it. (Pun not intended) [0] is quite unusable from this POV, as the author is an ex(?)-NSA person. It is an opinion hit-piece, starts with character assassination, just repeats the accusations. The recommendation to submit himself to US secret (!) court system is a mockery, if you have followed the Assange show-trials. Secret court systems that always rule in favor of the state? That, being secret, cannot undergo the scrutiny of the public? Even if he is innocent, at this point nobody who makes this suggestions can be taken seriously. He would be at the mercy of a vengeful deep state while disappearing in a supermax prison for at least some years. Versus, living what looks like a decent live in Moscow. If Snowden was innocent, this is just the same as I would expect from a lying NSA mouthpiece. The story about getting trapped in Russia would include some severely dumb mistakes by the US. Revoking his passport exactly at this time, trapping him in the capital of one of their worst enemies? Again, nothing what Snowden did after his escape really depends on his motives. [1] Interesting spy story. But again from an ex(?)-NSA person. Also, or, in consequence, a bit one-sided and very focused on the cold-war communist scare. About the "without Putins approval". What do you mean? Even if a dictator like Putin had no involvement before, presented with such an opportunity, I'd fully expect him to personally take advantage of such a situation, showing the "hypocrisy of the west" and sticking it to the US. That's exactly what he is doing now, dangling Snowden in front of the world. Snowden seeking protection from a weaker country would have been very stupid for him, as Assange can surely tell in hindsight. Anyway, all of this could also be a ruse of the NSA, to publicize a lot of things hat had been public knowledge anyways all at once, containing the public uproar and legalizing their forbidded deeds. Most things like the secret spy gear room etc. in advance. Did anyone in the NSA going rogue get punished for overstepping their boundaries, breaking numerous laws? I don't think so. The only ones who are punished are the messengers, and then law breaking only stopped, because the laws have been changed.