5 ms·

I don't have to worry about getting HIV every time I go out in public just because some jerk decided he has a god-given right to breathe viral particles into my

I don't have to worry about getting HIV every time I go out in public just because some jerk decided he has a god-given right to breathe viral particles into my lungs even though a simple and safe vaccine is readily available.

jlack 5y ago
This makes no sense. It's incredibly clear at this point that vaccinated people with covid spread it just the same as an unvaccinated person with covid.
- jjoonathan 5y ago
  Yeah, and a car crash does the same damage regardless of Blood Alcohol Concentration. We should still punish a drunk driver for irresponsible behavior.
- stavros 5y ago
  > just the same AFAIK that's not true.
- pengaru 5y ago
  IIRC vaccinated people spread smaller quantities of the virus, and the viral droplets they do spread tend to include antigens since their body is actively fighting the infection while they spread it... you know, because their system was primed for the fight thanks to the vaccine. I think this Fridman podcast interview explored such things, either way it was quite informative on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G433fa01oMU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G433fa01oMU
- ashwagary 5y ago
  My understanding, from a study that may be outdated by now, is the window to spread covid is slightly bigger in the unvaccinated, but not by much. 1-3 days of additional self-quarantine solves this issue.
scarmig 5y ago
This is perilously close to "people who get COVID are innocent victims so forcible interventions are justified, while people who got HIV chose to do it so those same nterventions are less justified." I agree that, for the average person, COVID is easier to contract than HIV. But by the same token, COVID is much less severe than HIV, even with modern treatment plans. It's not at core about some abstract principle about how preventing disease spread trumps all other concerns but is instead a cost benefit analysis. Keeping the country shut down perpetually is an extreme cost that we are continually incurring.
- reallyagain 5y ago
  > But by the same token, COVID is much less severe than HIV, even with modern treatment plans. Do you have a source for this? This wouldn't surprise me for the Omicron variant, but I'm surprised that (for example) someone getting the Delta variant in 2021 was "much less severe" than someone getting HIV in 2021.
  - TMWNN 5y ago
    COVID19 has, since the beginning, had a 0.6% IFR. The odds of someone under 40 without comorbodities dying of it were and are more or less zero. HIV was and is invariably fatal. Yes, current drug regimens are remarkably effective. They are also very complex, required for the rest of your life, and do not affect the odds of you infecting someone else by unprotected sex. *No one*, not even the most ill centenarian, would choose HIV over COVID19 if required to be infected by one.
    - scarmig 5y ago
      Minor point of correction: someone who is HIV positive but has an undetectable viral load is very unlikely to give someone else HIV. It's riskier to have sex with a random at a bar of unknown status than it is to have sex with someone with an undetectable viral load. (If you trust that they do indeed have an undetectable viral load and strictly adhere to their medication protocol.)
deleted 5y ago
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spookthesunset 5y ago
If you are so worried about covid... don't go outside. Or if you do, triple mask and wear a face shield. I don't care. Just don't force me into taking measures to make you less fearful--that's pretty selfish.

jlack 5y ago

This makes no sense. It's incredibly clear at this point that vaccinated people with covid spread it just the same as an unvaccinated person with covid.

jjoonathan 5y ago
Yeah, and a car crash does the same damage regardless of Blood Alcohol Concentration. We should still punish a drunk driver for irresponsible behavior.
stavros 5y ago
> just the same AFAIK that's not true.
pengaru 5y ago
IIRC vaccinated people spread smaller quantities of the virus, and the viral droplets they do spread tend to include antigens since their body is actively fighting the infection while they spread it... you know, because their system was primed for the fight thanks to the vaccine. I think this Fridman podcast interview explored such things, either way it was quite informative on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G433fa01oMU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G433fa01oMU
ashwagary 5y ago
My understanding, from a study that may be outdated by now, is the window to spread covid is slightly bigger in the unvaccinated, but not by much. 1-3 days of additional self-quarantine solves this issue.

scarmig 5y ago

This is perilously close to "people who get COVID are innocent victims so forcible interventions are justified, while people who got HIV chose to do it so those same nterventions are less justified." I agree that, for the average person, COVID is easier to contract than HIV. But by the same token, COVID is much less severe than HIV, even with modern treatment plans. It's not at core about some abstract principle about how preventing disease spread trumps all other concerns but is instead a cost benefit analysis. Keeping the country shut down perpetually is an extreme cost that we are continually incurring.

reallyagain 5y ago
> But by the same token, COVID is much less severe than HIV, even with modern treatment plans. Do you have a source for this? This wouldn't surprise me for the Omicron variant, but I'm surprised that (for example) someone getting the Delta variant in 2021 was "much less severe" than someone getting HIV in 2021.
- TMWNN 5y ago
  COVID19 has, since the beginning, had a 0.6% IFR. The odds of someone under 40 without comorbodities dying of it were and are more or less zero. HIV was and is invariably fatal. Yes, current drug regimens are remarkably effective. They are also very complex, required for the rest of your life, and do not affect the odds of you infecting someone else by unprotected sex. *No one*, not even the most ill centenarian, would choose HIV over COVID19 if required to be infected by one.
  - scarmig 5y ago
    Minor point of correction: someone who is HIV positive but has an undetectable viral load is very unlikely to give someone else HIV. It's riskier to have sex with a random at a bar of unknown status than it is to have sex with someone with an undetectable viral load. (If you trust that they do indeed have an undetectable viral load and strictly adhere to their medication protocol.)

deleted 5y ago

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spookthesunset 5y ago

If you are so worried about covid... don't go outside. Or if you do, triple mask and wear a face shield. I don't care. Just don't force me into taking measures to make you less fearful--that's pretty selfish.