5 ms·

The same reasoning can be applied to obesity.

by akomtu 5y ago

kritiko 5y ago
I highly recommend reading this series if you think obesity is a personal failure: https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/07/07/a-chemical-hunger-part-i-mysteries/ https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/07/07/a-chemical-hunger-p... Obviously, yes, medical conditions do place burdens on health systems. That's why we tax cigarettes highly. However, in spite of considerable public health initiatives, the obesity rate continues to rise...
GavinMcG 5y ago
Not really. Various groups may disproportionately take up health resources, but the risk we're talking about is acutely overwhelming health systems.
- rory 5y ago
  This is definitely the most pressing issue, but shouldn't we also, as a society, build the ability to e.g. double ICU capacity when needed? We're not talking about 100x here. As much as I support vaccination, it feels like gaps in vaccination are also used as an excuse to blow off repairing an extremely fragile public health system. We've had two years at this point.
  - nicoburns 5y ago
    Two years doesn't seem like very long to double ICU capacity. How are you going to staff them? Nursing degrees take 3 years. Medical degrees much longer. And capacity to train doctors and nurses is also stretched by the pandemic and non-trivial to expand. I do agree that this is something governments ought to be looking into over the long term though.
    - rglullis 5y ago
      If the short-term problem is specific to Covid, you just need to bring/train people for that. Training people to assist Covid cases, run PCR tests, should be a matter of weeks, not years. Germany did it, I have 4 (four!) test centers on within a block of distance, all of them are filled with students and otherwise-unemployed people who got some minimal training.
      - nicoburns 5y ago
        I don't think test centres are the problem. I live and the UK and the only time tests were scarce was a few days around Christmas when there was very high demand.
    - rory 5y ago
      A standard nursing degree in Europe takes three years. That's not a scientific law, it's not like it takes 365 * 3 * 2/3 = 17520 hours to learn how to be useful in an ICU. An LPN can be done in a year. We trained mechanical engineers in as little time during WWII. If we're to treat this like an emergency, why aren't we treating it like an emergency?
      - spookthesunset 5y ago
        > If we're to treat this like an emergency, why aren't we treating it like an emergency? Because in truth it probably never was. We assembled fully staffed field hospitals that went completely unused.
wk_end 5y ago
...only if (and if only!) obesity were a problem that could be solved by a couple of quick, free shots at the local pharmacy.
- rkk3 5y ago
  "free shots"... hah those shots cost Tens of billions of dollars if not more. It was a totally worthwhile investment to make (we probably should have invested more in it) - but lets not pretend like there is nothing we could do about obesity if threw 100 Billion at the problem.
- bluedino 5y ago
  It'd be interesting to see what big pharma could come up with in a year.
tehjoker 5y ago
Obesity isn't contagious and doesn't have spiky behavior in hospitalizations. We also know a reliable cure even if its very difficult to put into practice (impossible for some).
- heurisko 5y ago
  Obesity is one of the big contributors to Covid infections that require complex hospital care. The two are linked. That's why I think vaccination schemes that offered free food were undermining the "following the science" bit. As was the banning of the popular "Parkrun" in the UK, which is a collective outdoor exercise event, during the lockdown. So many policies have undermined the "follow the science" bit in my mind.
  - tehjoker 5y ago
    one run and one meal is not gonna make or break someones weight. one vaccine might save their life
    - heurisko 5y ago
      You edited your comment. > one run and one meal is not gonna make or break someones weight On the contrary, we have had two years of this pandemic. Government messaging could have been a lot stronger on the benefits of exercise. That's 2 years for people to become healthier. And "one vaccine" has turned into one vaccine plus boosters. Everyone is going to get Covid at some point. General fitness will remain one of the best long term ways of combating the virus. The Parkrun is a weekly occurrence, and is popular even for those who do not have an interest in exercise as a hobby, as it is informal. As such, it acts as an important gateway to a healthier lifestyle. I'm by no means alone in seeing banning it as counterproductive, and not "following the science". https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-59816344 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-59816344 If the government wants to serverely curtail individual liberties, then I expect good reasons for doing so. It's not good to encourage blind adherance to illogical policies.
trinovantes 5y ago
Junk food has consumption tax Also, assuming their obesity is a life style choice instead of type 1 diabetes, I suspect many obese people would be willing to take a easy vaccine if it exists considering how big the lose-weight-quick industry is
rtikulit 5y ago
Obesity isn't exogenous, infectious or subject to exponential growth. Even a superficial consideration of the facts shows that analogies between obesity and covid are unsound.
squeaky-clean 5y ago
Next time I have to postpone an elective surgery for 3 months because obesity cases have filled the ICU, then you can apply the same reasoning.

The same reasoning can be applied to obesity.

by akomtu 5y ago

The same reasoning can be applied to obesity.

I highly recommend reading this series if you think obesity is a personal failure: https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/07/07/a-chemical-hunger-part-i-mysteries/ https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/07/07/a-chemical-hunger-p... Obviously, yes, medical conditions do place burdens on health systems. That's why we tax cigarettes highly. However, in spite of considerable public health initiatives, the obesity rate continues to rise...

GavinMcG 5y ago

Not really. Various groups may disproportionately take up health resources, but the risk we're talking about is acutely overwhelming health systems.

rory 5y ago
This is definitely the most pressing issue, but shouldn't we also, as a society, build the ability to e.g. double ICU capacity when needed? We're not talking about 100x here. As much as I support vaccination, it feels like gaps in vaccination are also used as an excuse to blow off repairing an extremely fragile public health system. We've had two years at this point.
- nicoburns 5y ago
  Two years doesn't seem like very long to double ICU capacity. How are you going to staff them? Nursing degrees take 3 years. Medical degrees much longer. And capacity to train doctors and nurses is also stretched by the pandemic and non-trivial to expand. I do agree that this is something governments ought to be looking into over the long term though.
  - rglullis 5y ago
    If the short-term problem is specific to Covid, you just need to bring/train people for that. Training people to assist Covid cases, run PCR tests, should be a matter of weeks, not years. Germany did it, I have 4 (four!) test centers on within a block of distance, all of them are filled with students and otherwise-unemployed people who got some minimal training.
    - nicoburns 5y ago
      I don't think test centres are the problem. I live and the UK and the only time tests were scarce was a few days around Christmas when there was very high demand.
  - rory 5y ago
    A standard nursing degree in Europe takes three years. That's not a scientific law, it's not like it takes 365 * 3 * 2/3 = 17520 hours to learn how to be useful in an ICU. An LPN can be done in a year. We trained mechanical engineers in as little time during WWII. If we're to treat this like an emergency, why aren't we treating it like an emergency?
    - spookthesunset 5y ago
      > If we're to treat this like an emergency, why aren't we treating it like an emergency? Because in truth it probably never was. We assembled fully staffed field hospitals that went completely unused.

wk_end 5y ago

...only if (and if only!) obesity were a problem that could be solved by a couple of quick, free shots at the local pharmacy.

rkk3 5y ago
"free shots"... hah those shots cost Tens of billions of dollars if not more. It was a totally worthwhile investment to make (we probably should have invested more in it) - but lets not pretend like there is nothing we could do about obesity if threw 100 Billion at the problem.
bluedino 5y ago
It'd be interesting to see what big pharma could come up with in a year.

tehjoker 5y ago

Obesity isn't contagious and doesn't have spiky behavior in hospitalizations. We also know a reliable cure even if its very difficult to put into practice (impossible for some).

heurisko 5y ago
Obesity is one of the big contributors to Covid infections that require complex hospital care. The two are linked. That's why I think vaccination schemes that offered free food were undermining the "following the science" bit. As was the banning of the popular "Parkrun" in the UK, which is a collective outdoor exercise event, during the lockdown. So many policies have undermined the "follow the science" bit in my mind.
- tehjoker 5y ago
  one run and one meal is not gonna make or break someones weight. one vaccine might save their life
  - heurisko 5y ago
    You edited your comment. > one run and one meal is not gonna make or break someones weight On the contrary, we have had two years of this pandemic. Government messaging could have been a lot stronger on the benefits of exercise. That's 2 years for people to become healthier. And "one vaccine" has turned into one vaccine plus boosters. Everyone is going to get Covid at some point. General fitness will remain one of the best long term ways of combating the virus. The Parkrun is a weekly occurrence, and is popular even for those who do not have an interest in exercise as a hobby, as it is informal. As such, it acts as an important gateway to a healthier lifestyle. I'm by no means alone in seeing banning it as counterproductive, and not "following the science". https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-59816344 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-59816344 If the government wants to serverely curtail individual liberties, then I expect good reasons for doing so. It's not good to encourage blind adherance to illogical policies.

trinovantes 5y ago

Junk food has consumption tax Also, assuming their obesity is a life style choice instead of type 1 diabetes, I suspect many obese people would be willing to take a easy vaccine if it exists considering how big the lose-weight-quick industry is

rtikulit 5y ago

Obesity isn't exogenous, infectious or subject to exponential growth. Even a superficial consideration of the facts shows that analogies between obesity and covid are unsound.

squeaky-clean 5y ago

Next time I have to postpone an elective surgery for 3 months because obesity cases have filled the ICU, then you can apply the same reasoning.